Great Western Electrification Progress

Scottychoo · 4 Dec 2019

I heard that the Severn Tunnel will be diesel only permanently due to too many ongoing issues in there. Diesel for 5 miles on a 75mph section isn't going to result in any loss of time surely.

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oglord · 4 Dec 2019

Martin1504 said:
I heard that the Severn Tunnel will be diesel only permanently due to too many ongoing issues in there. Diesel for 5 miles on a 75mph section isn't going to result in any loss of time surely.

Except it would prevent any electric-only trains from ever running (e.g. 387s). I heard that all the problems were solved, or at least mitigated with a more regular inspection/maintenance regime.

swt_passenger · 4 Dec 2019

oglord said:
Except it would prevent any electric-only trains from ever running (e.g. 387s). I heard that all the problems were solved, or at least mitigated with a more regular inspection/maintenance regime.

Yes, reported in posts around #9249, quoting Noel Dolphin of Furrer & Frey...

linuxlad7 · 4 Dec 2019

##

swt_passenger said:
Yes, reported in posts around #9249, quoting Noel Dolphin of Furrer & Frey...

moving to an ally alloy(?) catenary and then retesting... could be proving wacky???

Is there an update from Dolphyn and friends on whether the contact wire .changes are adequately successful? it would be good to get this issue behind us.

Scottychoo · 4 Dec 2019

It's not the end of the world if 387s can't run to Cardiff.

Tom Quinne · 4 Dec 2019

Martin1504 said:
It's not the end of the world if 387s can't run to Cardiff.

The tunnel is being juiced, this will allow 12 car 387 sets to work over on event days which has always been the plan, and why the extent of wire was extended to include the lengthened (for 12 car 387 stabling) brickyard siding and Line A turnback.

Without this there was no need beyond the platform ends at Cardiff.

HowardGWR · 4 Dec 2019

Tom Quinne said:
The tunnel is being juiced, this will allow 12 car 387 sets to work over on event days which has always been the plan, and why the extent of wire was extended to include the lengthened (for 12 car 387 stabling) brickyard siding and Line A turnback.

Without this there was no need beyond the platform ends at Cardiff.

Do I understand from your posts Tom, that 387s can run from Parkway to Cardiff the day after Boxing Day?
Edit: I should explain I mean 'in principle'. I've no doubt that other measures, training, etc would be needed to be implemented.

Envoy · 4 Dec 2019

It surely is vital that the Severn Tunnel is electrified as sooner or later there will be a desire to run other electric services through the tunnel such as stoppers between Cardiff and Bristol/Bath? Reducing fumes in tunnels is also important from a health point of view - despite the ventilation. The fumes are also likely to be part of the problem regarding the corrosion of the overhead equipment.

Perhaps they should build a barrage across the estuary which generates electricity with the railway on top? One in the upper estuary would be much cheaper than the previous plans for one from Lavernock to Brean Down.

GRALISTAIR · 4 Dec 2019

Martin1504 said:
I heard that the Severn Tunnel will be diesel only permanently due to too many ongoing issues in there. Diesel for 5 miles on a 75mph section isn't going to result in any loss of time surely.

So only rumor then. Just makes no sense if we truly want to decarbonize.

Envoy said:
It surely is vital that the Severn Tunnel is electrified as sooner or later there will be a desire to run other electric services through the tunnel such as stoppers between Cardiff and Bristol/Bath? Reducing fumes in tunnels is also important from a health point of view - despite the ventilation. The fumes are also likely to be part of the problem regarding the corrosion of the overhead equipment.

Absolutely

Optom1 · 4 Dec 2019

Grand union also want to run loco hauled trains from Cardiff to Paddington

ChrisHogan · 4 Dec 2019

Platform extensions at West Drayton on relief lines (platform 3 and 4) now open to passengers. Reinstated platform 5 also open to passengers but no signage or indicators, suggesting early use unlikely.

Mag_seven · 4 Dec 2019

Martin1504 said:
I heard that the Severn Tunnel will be diesel only permanently due to too many ongoing issues in there.

From whom?

Tom Quinne · 4 Dec 2019

HowardGWR said:
Do I understand from your posts Tom, that 387s can run from Parkway to Cardiff the day after Boxing Day?
Edit: I should explain I mean 'in principle'. I've no doubt that other measures, training, etc would be needed to be implemented.

The treat as live date is 27/12, actual open go electric traction is Jan 15th I think it is - obviously the black hole needs sorting before 387s can operate over there, unfortunately it’ll be to late for the 2020 Six Nations.

Jon125 · 4 Dec 2019

Bridge swap out prep works at Patchway ongoing today.

cle · 5 Dec 2019

ChrisHogan said:
Platform extensions at West Drayton on relief lines (platform 3 and 4) now open to passengers. Reinstated platform 5 also open to passengers but no signage or indicators, suggesting early use unlikely.

What is the intended use for P5, now that more services are headed to Heathrow?

Also, how is that fifth line west of there (through Iver etc) being utilized if at all? Overtaking of faster Crossrail services? Freight?

swt_passenger · 5 Dec 2019

cle said:
What is the intended use for P5, now that more services are headed to Heathrow?

Also, how is that fifth line west of there (through Iver etc) being utilized if at all? Overtaking of faster Crossrail services? Freight?

A question that’s been asked a few times with no obvious answers. I suspect if we were starting now P5 wouldn’t necessarily have been provided; although it will provide a bolthole during perturbations eg if there’s a problem at Heathrow. The December timetable doesn’t have any obvious passenger service overtaking going on. Although not all Crossrail services stop everywhere I don’t think the frequency is such that any overtaking is needed.

But it’s not really part of the GW electrification project.

hwl · 5 Dec 2019

swt_passenger said:
A question that’s been asked a few times with no obvious answers. I suspect if we were starting now P5 wouldn’t necessarily have been provided; although it will provide a bolthole during perturbations eg if there’s a problem at Heathrow. The December timetable doesn’t have any obvious passenger service overtaking going on. Although not all Crossrail services stop everywhere I don’t think the frequency is such that any overtaking is needed.

But it’s not really part of the GW electrification project.

The future T5 Crossrail services were originally West Drayton terminators which would have blocked the up relief platform hence useful to be able to have the goods line usable to go round.

swt_passenger · 5 Dec 2019

hwl said:
The future T5 Crossrail services were originally West Drayton terminators which would have blocked the up relief platform hence useful to be able to have the goods line usable to go round.

Sure. I didn’t want to repeat an oft repeated discussion.

cle · 5 Dec 2019

Yep I was aware too, hence the Heathrow comment.

I wonder about any future frequency increases beyond Paddington/OOC - it could still be an option, as is Hayes, although I'd expect even more to go via Heathrow.

hwl · 5 Dec 2019

cle said:
Yep I was aware too, hence the Heathrow comment.

I wonder about any future frequency increases beyond Paddington/OOC - it could still be an option, as is Hayes, although I'd expect even more to go via Heathrow.

THe remaing 10tph that turn back at "Paddington" will get extended to OOC when the HS station opens. More trains further west beyond OOC is problematic.

Linda smith · 8 Dec 2019

Tom Quinne said:
The treat as live date is 27/12, actual open go electric traction is Jan 15th I think it is - obviously the black hole needs sorting before 387s can operate over there, unfortunately it’ll be to late for the 2020 Six Nations.

when I had a look at realtime trains for that date, they have the london - Newport & Swansea services as being under diesel power from pilning station.

oglord · 8 Dec 2019

Linda smith said:
when I had a look at realtime trains for that date, they have the london - Newport & Swansea services as being under diesel power from pilning station.

But switching back at STJ.

Optom1 · 8 Dec 2019

Realtimes describe trains as being pathed on electric/ diesel.Didcot to Wantage road is described as being pathed for diesel @125 mph,though to my knowledge electric is used @110 mph.Some Bristol to Newports are described as being pathed as diesel from Parkway,not Pilning so I’m not sure what is happening.

Optom1 · 8 Dec 2019

A closer look at real time suggests Monday 6th Jan is when Cardiff to S.T.Jnc goes electric,with diesel power being pathed to Pilning

JN114 · 9 Dec 2019

That's only what stuff has been timetabled as, it has no bearing on what will actually run

ATW158Xpress · 9 Dec 2019

As already mentioned in earlier posts wires as far as Newport expect the Severn Tunnel will be authorised for use as from 15/12 and Cardiff sometime in the New Year after switch on and testing as been completed.

davetheguard · 9 Dec 2019

ChrisHogan said:
Platform extensions at West Drayton on relief lines (platform 3 and 4) now open to passengers. Reinstated platform 5 also open to passengers but no signage or indicators, suggesting early use unlikely.

Presumably platform 5 at West Drayton, although it remained intact, hasn't been used by passengers since the lines to Staines West/Uxbridge Vine Street closed and the track through it was designated a goods loop?

Pete_uk · 9 Dec 2019

Envoy said:
It surely is vital that the Severn Tunnel is electrified as sooner or later there will be a desire to run other electric services through the tunnel such as stoppers between Cardiff and Bristol/Bath? Reducing fumes in tunnels is also important from a health point of view - despite the ventilation. The fumes are also likely to be part of the problem regarding the corrosion of the overhead equipment.

Perhaps they should build a barrage across the estuary which generates electricity with the railway on top? One in the upper estuary would be much cheaper than the previous plans for one from Lavernock to Brean Down.

Any over the Severn option will have to let shipping to Portbury, Sharpness and Gloucester underneath. A new tunnel would be better IMO.

JN114 · 9 Dec 2019

davetheguard said:
Presumably platform 5 at West Drayton, although it remained intact, hasn't been used by passengers since the lines to Staines West/Uxbridge Vine Street closed and the track through it was designated a goods loop?

It was definitely a fully-functioning platform as late as 2012, albeit with no scheduled services - although only for terminating trains from Paddington to turn back.

linuxlad7 · 9 Dec 2019

Pete_uk said:
Any over the Severn option will have to let shipping to Portbury, Sharpness and Gloucester underneath. A new tunnel would be better IMO.

argh the perils of the Sharpness Railway
Bridge... but on a good day you can 'walk' ( ish} from Purton to Purton I was told

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