• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

The shambles that is LNWR on the WCML South

Status
Not open for further replies.

8J

Member
Joined
31 Aug 2009
Messages
648
I've been observing a swathe of cancellations on this route (mainly Northampton to Euston) recently that have been attributed to no traincrew. Does anyone know what and why this is going on. Passengers are becoming increasingly fed up with this mess.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,354
At a guess there’s a shortage or traincrew - I’m not aware of a great conspiracy to pretend something other than a shortage of traincrew is as such.
 

Furrball

Member
Joined
9 May 2011
Messages
563
Just seeing this

2304, 2322 and 2322 cancelled last night

upload_2019-12-4_1-28-16.png

2322 and 2342 cancelled tonight

upload_2019-12-4_1-29-1.png



LNWR Twitter response not great....

https://twitter.com/Lisalisaisa/status/1202008694197760005?s=20

@Lisalisaisa
@LNRailway
your staff at London Euston literally hid in the ticket office while a large group of customers needed and asked for help and advice on how to get home after your trains were cancelled tonight. Unbelievable behaviour from your staff.


@LNRailway

Replying to
@Lisalisaisa
Hi Lisa, London Euston is managed by Network Rail staff, which station are you heading home to please? and I'll see if I can find your next train

OK, just one account of a story but again does not wash well with ToC. It's one thing to be stuck at a station at 2pm but when you see service after service cancelled late at night and you are starting to wonder how you will actually get home...
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,781
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The ongoing saga of these issues caused by the implementation of an unworkable timetable and crew/unit diagrams are chronicled in the below thread. Some minor tweaks are being made in December but personally I believe only a significant operational split-up (either at Birmingham as it used to be, or having crews/units dedicated to one of Liverpool, Rugeley, Crewe via wobble, Crewe direct and MKC/Tring stoppers) is going to properly fix it.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...n-open-data-feeds.176894/page-53#post-4315236
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,155
There is a tendency for train crew issues to occur more frequently in December (for operators that have a January - December annual leave cycle), and for operators that are having industrial action. For example, Southern was particularly affected 2014-16.

Draw your own conclusion.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,628
Location
Redcar
LNR, like many operators, often relies on overtime to run services particularly at the margins but even during the middle of the day (to cover for sickness, holidays, etc). For someone to come in when they're not rostered or to stay later than they're contracted relies on firstly their desire to earn a bit more but also their goodwill. Right now LNR are in the midst of an industrial dispute with a big chunk of their staff which means that the staff probably aren't feeling a whole hell of a lot of goodwill towards their employer. So when they get the phone call asking "any chance you can come in and work xyz today for me?" the answer is far more likely to be "nah, thanks anyway!". The results are then fairly predictable...

At least that would be my guess!
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
935
The ongoing saga of these issues caused by the implementation of an unworkable timetable and crew/unit diagrams are chronicled in the below thread. Some minor tweaks are being made in December but personally I believe only a significant operational split-up (either at Birmingham as it used to be, or having crews/units dedicated to one of Liverpool, Rugeley, Crewe via wobble, Crewe direct and MKC/Tring stoppers) is going to properly fix it.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...n-open-data-feeds.176894/page-53#post-4315236
Wherever is Wobble ?
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,243
Location
Fenny Stratford
We have got:

  • An overly complex and intricate timetable that falls apart at the merest hint of disruption
  • seasonal staff shortages
  • below rock bottom staff morale/ completely absent goodwill
  • an operator who seems unable to make sensible decisions
  • 350 refurbishment
  • Autumn
  • Train failures
  • Strikes
  • High passenger numbers
  • Vastly busy network
  • Different service patterns ( commuter/regional/long distance)
  • Insufficient stock to run the intricate timetable
  • Passenger goodwill absent
So, yeah, lots of issues!

EDIT - and for me: Ongoing Marston Vale line problems with trains.

Wherever is Wobble ?

A small village between Stone and Stoke ;)
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,128
Right now LNR are in the midst of an industrial dispute with a big chunk of their staff which means that the staff probably aren't feeling a whole hell of a lot of goodwill towards their employer. !
Given TPE also appear to be displaying equal or even greater levels of unreliability on a daily basis without to my knowledge any form of official dispute , there’s surely more to all this than an unwillingness to work overtime
 
Last edited:

The_Train

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2018
Messages
4,341
I can assure you that the issues are not just confined to the southern part of the WCML
 

The_Train

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2018
Messages
4,341
There are problems across the entire LM network but i think the reasons for those issues are the same

Most definitely and you covered these reasons perfectly well here

We have got:

  • An overly complex and intricate timetable that falls apart at the merest hint of disruption
  • seasonal staff shortages
  • below rock bottom staff morale/ completely absent goodwill
  • an operator who seems unable to make sensible decisions
  • 350 refurbishment
  • Autumn
  • Train failures
  • Strikes
  • High passenger numbers
  • Vastly busy network
  • Different service patterns ( commuter/regional/long distance)
  • Insufficient stock to run the intricate timetable
  • Passenger goodwill absent
So, yeah, lots of issues!

EDIT - and for me: Ongoing Marston Vale line problems with trains.



A small village between Stone and Stoke ;)
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,781
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The Marston Vale is still poor - it's just hiding behind problems on the mainline. It tripped me up this morning, though fortunately I got a good seat at the extra-legroom table on the 0625 to Euston instead, which was a pair of 350/3s - quite a lucky escape from the random unit generator! :)
 

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790
The previous operators of this franchise had similar problems too. One of the reasons quoted at the time was insufficient drivers and the length of time it took to train new drivers. Has nothing been learnt?
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
There's ongoing crew shortages with a number of TOCs but I never understand if it's mostly simple understaffing by management, difficulty in recruitment (unlikely?) or high turnover (also unlikely ?).
Are there actual significant *vacancies* not being filled ?
 

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790
There's ongoing crew shortages with a number of TOCs but I never understand if it's mostly simple understaffing by management, difficulty in recruitment (unlikely?) or high turnover (also unlikely ?).
Are there actual significant *vacancies* not being filled ?

There's always been a very keen interest in any vacancies on this board, so there is no excuse for not recruiting, so I assume it is deliberate under-staffing by management. Are LNWR receiving stiff financial penalties for cancelling these trains, to give them a strong deterrent from continuing the approach of not training or recruiting sufficient drivers?
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,419
There's always been a very keen interest in any vacancies on this board, so there is no excuse for not recruiting ...

It seems to be a thing in the UK (or the south east at least) to not bother to put enough staff on (snip snip cost cut dump the consequences on other people). Like the Horsham post office last Friday, 10 people in the queue, 25 minutes to queue to do something that takes 30 seconds, there was only three people in front of me, but two of them took an unusually long time, one out of four windows open. It is a management decision according to one of the (stressed looking) public facing staff.
 

fairlie

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2010
Messages
105
Attempted to catch the 1002 from Marston Green this morning which was cancelled due to lack of crew.
 

option

Member
Joined
1 Aug 2017
Messages
636
Friday at New Street showed how useless LNWR are.
All 3 services from the north arrived ~10mins late.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P44887/2019-12-06
(the data for this train is wrong, as it was still sat in P1 when the following train [P45250] arrived at ~18:30. This looks a lot more like the actual departure time https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P44378/2019-12-06 )
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P45250/2019-12-06

That first train was absolutely rammed, & people kept opening the doors to try & squeeze on. There were no LNWR staff to stop them doing so, & there was no train guard. He turned up ~18:20 & did nothing. There was no announcement that the train would terminate early.
(I was able to get on the train behind it, only needing to go to International)


That first train then got to Northampton at least half an hour late, (18:54 timetabled) & terminated early. (It was due to go to Euston)
It initially looks good that they held the 19:25 Euston departure from Northampton, but that service doesn't do the Berkhamsted, Hemel Hempstead & Watford Junction stops.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top