When is Off Peak (at least in London)

packermac · 5 Dec 2019

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I am confused by the morning peak timings and I wonder if one of the experts on here can explain.
I first noticed it last month when I needed to take the 0440 from East Croydon to St. Pancras to steward a railtour from Euston. I checked both NRE and the TFL fare finder. I noticed NRE offered only anytime fare and did not offer any discount for a Senior railcard. TFL say the peak starts at 0630 and hence offers my railcard discount (loaded on my Oyster) before then.
Same thing next week Hayes & Harlington to Paddington 0515 £2.05 Oyster but £6.60 via NRE and also SWR (chosen at random).
Forgetting the price difference as I would expect Oyster to be cheaper when does the morning peak start?

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cactustwirly · 5 Dec 2019

packermac said:
Sorry if this has been discussed before but I am confused by the morning peak timings and I wonder if one of the experts on here can explain.
I first noticed it last month when I needed to take the 0440 from East Croydon to St. Pancras to steward a railtour from Euston. I checked both NRE and the TFL fare finder. I noticed NRE offered only anytime fare and did not offer any discount for a Senior railcard. TFL say the peak starts at 0630 and hence offers my railcard discount (loaded on my Oyster) before then.
Same thing next week Hayes & Harlington to Paddington 0515 £2.05 Oyster but £6.60 via NRE and also SWR (chosen at random).
Forgetting the price difference as I would expect Oyster to be cheaper when does the morning peak start?

It depends on the restriction code on your ticket, mostly this is after 0929 but not always the case

packermac · 5 Dec 2019

cactustwirly said:
It depends on the restriction code on your ticket, mostly this is after 0929 but not always the case

Yes I realise that but when does it start 0001 or some other time in the early hours? NRE says previous days off peak tickets are valid until 0429 so does peak start at 0430?
even it does it is really peak until at least 0600?

ess · 5 Dec 2019

How can GWR print timetables stating that a peak ticket is required for a particular train when it is the ticket restriction code and not the specific train that is peak or off peak?

Are there any accredited forum members who can answer a specific query on this directly as a PM rather than in public?

JBuchananGB · 5 Dec 2019

The restriction for National Rail Off Peak tickets from East Croydon to London Terminals is
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/b1

There is no National Rail Off-peak Day single fare.

For journeys using Oyster, peak is from 0630 to 0930.

JonathanH · 5 Dec 2019

packermac said:
Yes I realise that but when does it start 0001 or some other time in the early hours? NRE says previous days off peak tickets are valid until 0429 so does peak start at 0430?
even it does it is really peak until at least 0600?

There is some inconsistency.

Firstly, on Oyster / Contactless, the day lasts from 0430 to 0429. Peak fares apply between 0630 and 0930 and then again between 1600 and 1900. If you have a railcard discount applied to your Oyster card, PAYG single fares are calculated at the discounted level at all off-peak times based on the time you first touch in. However, discounted daily capping does not apply until 0930.

Where TfL sell a paper travelcard, a peak travelcard is needed for travel between from 0430 to 0929. TfL travelcards cannot be bought for the new day until 0430.

For paper tickets purchased from National Rail, peak within London applies from 0001 to 0930 as tickets for the new day apply from midnight. However, a ticket that has already been purchased for the previous day remains valid until 0430. Railcards apply to paper tickets in line with their validity restriction. In particular, within London and the South East a Senior Railcard cannot be used to discount paper tickets until off-peak tickets are valid (or 0930 where there is no off-peak ticket).

packermac · 5 Dec 2019

JonathanH said:
There is some inconsistency.

Firstly, on Oyster / Contactless, the day lasts from 0430 to 0429. Peak fares apply between 0630 and 0930 and then again between 1600 and 1900. If you have a railcard discount applied to your Oyster card, PAYG single fares are calculated at the discounted level at all off-peak times based on the time you first touch in. However, discounted daily capping does not apply until 0930.

Where TfL sell a paper travelcard, a peak travelcard is needed for travel between from 0430 to 0929. TfL travelcards cannot be bought for the new day until 0430.

For paper tickets purchased from National Rail, peak within London applies from 0001 to 0930 as tickets for the new day apply from midnight. However, a ticket that has already been purchased for the previous day remains valid until 0430. Railcards apply to paper tickets in line with their validity restriction. In particular, within London and the South East a Senior Railcard cannot be used to discount paper tickets until off-peak tickets are valid (or 0930 where there is no off-peak ticket).

Thanks for the explanation, I would agree that it is inconsistent. When I lived in London I had a Freedom Pass so would just use the tube to get to Central London early in the day for free, so have only come across this since I moved to Dorset and have had to start paying again.

TUC · 5 Dec 2019

JonathanH said:
There is some inconsistency.

Firstly, on Oyster / Contactless, the day lasts from 0430 to 0429. Peak fares apply between 0630 and 0930 and then again between 1600 and 1900. If you have a railcard discount applied to your Oyster card, PAYG single fares are calculated at the discounted level at all off-peak times based on the time you first touch in. However, discounted daily capping does not apply until 0930.

Where TfL sell a paper travelcard, a peak travelcard is needed for travel between from 0430 to 0929. TfL travelcards cannot be bought for the new day until 0430.

For paper tickets purchased from National Rail, peak within London applies from 0001 to 0930 as tickets for the new day apply from midnight. However, a ticket that has already been purchased for the previous day remains valid until 0430. Railcards apply to paper tickets in line with their validity restriction. In particular, within London and the South East a Senior Railcard cannot be used to discount paper tickets until off-peak tickets are valid (or 0930 where there is no off-peak ticket).

When you refer to paper tickets, are you including non-Oyster m-tickets erc?

RJ · 5 Dec 2019

The answer is when the peak is depends on your ticket.

There's one set of off peak rules for Oyster/contactless which is different to that for TOC managed tickets. You can check the Oyster peak periods for your journey via the TfL Single Fare Finder - https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder

If you state the stations you want a ticket between, someone can check what the restriction is for you as it's not that straightforward. That said you won't find any Off Peak tickets for travel between stations in London except the Travelcard - they were withdrawn when Oyster went London wide.

JonathanH · 5 Dec 2019

TUC said:
When you refer to paper tickets, are you including non-Oyster m-tickets erc?

Only a limited number of flows specifically in the London area have non-Oyster m-tickets / e-tickets / print at home etc. (Obviously the long-distance operators use them for journeys to London a lot but not for through journeys and the question was about tickets for travel within the London Zones.)

When is Off Peak (at least in London)

packermac

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cactustwirly

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packermac

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ess

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JBuchananGB

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JonathanH

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packermac

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TUC

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RJ

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JonathanH

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