superkev
Established Member
Anyone got and update as to what's happening to Northerns 10 horrid but usefull class 153s, post Pacer, and after they eventually get all the new units going.
Thanks
K
Thanks
K
Northern will be applying (or has already applied) for a derogation to continue using solo, non-PRM 153s on at least two routes, those being Huddersfield to Castleford and Huddersfield to Bradford Interchange. This is required due to a lack of free platforms at Huddersfield requiring use of the short P5 which can only just take a 2-car 150- and using a 150 there is discouraged as it's such a tight squeeze.Anyone got and update as to what's happening to Northerns 10 horrid but usefull class 153s, post Pacer, and after they eventually get all the new units going.
Thanks
K
Northern have 20 153s, not 10.Anyone got and update as to what's happening to Northerns 10 horrid but usefull class 153s, post Pacer, and after they eventually get all the new units going.
Thanks
K
There was a memo posted about six weeks ago reminding drivers that 150s are prohibited from Huddersfield P5 and if offered the route into platform 5 from HU770 signal or HU1412 signal they are not to take that route.Northern will be applying (or has already applied) for a derogation to continue using solo, non-PRM 153s on at least two routes, those being Huddersfield to Castleford and Huddersfield to Bradford Interchange. This is required due to a lack of free platforms at Huddersfield requiring use of the short P5 which can only just take a 2-car 150- and using a 150 there is discouraged as it's such a tight squeeze.
Northerns 10 horrid but usefull class 153s,
The last time I saw one in there would've been in around July of this year. Understandable that it is now forbidden, as it is a very tight squeeze.There was a memo posted about six weeks ago reminding drivers that 150s are prohibited from Huddersfield P5 and if offered the route into platform 5 from HU770 signal or HU1412 signal they are not to take that route.
Didn't think that would fit in the bay at Huddersfield, but if that's the plan I guess it will!Northern is planning to run class 153 coupled to the Class 150 on Penistone Line.
They might be staying for a while, the current rumour is that my depot will be signing them next year......
Northern is planning to run class 153 coupled to the Class 150 on Penistone Line.
Yes single 153’s will work the 2 x Huddersfield- Castleford and 2 x Huddersfield - Bradford I diagrams
The Castleford service also has lots of layover time so it’s a shame they couldnt run both services interworked with 3 diagrams rather than 4 fairly light diagramsHuddersfield to Bradford Interchange is eighteen miles and sixty chains.
Given Northern's lack of staff/ lack of trains/ high levels of subsidy (etc), it's frustrating (and predictable!) that they are unable to run the new hourly Huddersfield - Bradford shuttle with just one diagram/unit - given that the round trip is under thirty eight miles, that's more cost (and staff/ units) tied up on this short service than there ought to be.
But, this is the railway, so presumably there aren't suitable paths in each direction meaning some long layovers at Huddersfield/Bradford, or a ten minute dwell (with twenty minute journey time to cover under nineteen miles) wouldn't be sufficient to maintain reliability or whatever... it just seems a waste (when it's not as if we have lots of spare staff/stock).
I agree with @Kite159 's point about sticking the 153s on the end of a 150/2 though.
They have 20 class 153'sAnyone got and update as to what's happening to Northerns 10 horrid but usefull class 153s, post Pacer, and after they eventually get all the new units going.
Thanks
K
post 3...They have 20 class 153's
Northern have 20 153s, not 10.
Huddersfield to Bradford Interchange is eighteen miles and sixty chains.
Given Northern's lack of staff/ lack of trains/ high levels of subsidy (etc), it's frustrating (and predictable!) that they are unable to run the new hourly Huddersfield - Bradford shuttle with just one diagram/unit - given that the round trip is under thirty eight miles, that's more cost (and staff/ units) tied up on this short service than there ought to be.
But, this is the railway, so presumably there aren't suitable paths in each direction meaning some long layovers at Huddersfield/Bradford, or a ten minute dwell (with twenty minute journey time to cover under nineteen miles) wouldn't be sufficient to maintain reliability or whatever... it just seems a waste (when it's not as if we have lots of spare staff/stock).
I agree with @Kite159 's point about sticking the 153s on the end of a 150/2 though.
I am at a loss to understand how you think an average speed of neary 60mph would be possible in this area? Given that the Sectional Running Times (without any pathing allowances or indeed station dwell) add up to over 30 minutes in each direction, this was never going to be a single train operation, although andyh82's suggestion of interworking with the Castleford service might be worthy of further investigation - but this IS the railway...
Last time I used the Bradford Huddersfield service it spent most of it's time stood still at Halifax, Brighouse and longest of all Bradley junction where I could watch my Manchester trans pennine go past. I believe it still has time allowed for the never built Elland Station. Far quicker by bus so a complete waste of time and resource.Just making the point that the railway is a lot more expensive/complicated than it needs to be - at a time when we have insufficient staff/ trains, we are taking up two DMUs and two sets of staff to run an hourly service to link two places less than nineteen miles apart (by rail - obviously closer as the crow flies).
If the line speeds are so slow that it's impossible to cover nineteen miles in under half an hour then it's tempting to give up and spend the subsidy on minibuses instead.
(I agree with @Andyh82, mind)
They tried that in May 2018 and it was an unmitigated disaster, which is why the "6th path" was split a year ago. Presumably TPE will want to rejoin the stoppers as soon as they can make it work. However I'm not sure it can work until the infrastructure is upgraded.It's a shame TPE can't join the Leeds and Manchester stoppers so they just call on P1/8 rather than trying up platforms at Huddersfield, as the old Manchester-Wakefield service did many years ago in the days when p4 was almost never used.
The service used to dwell longer at Halifax, but some of that time was used to add the Low Moor stop. In the rush hour the train beats the X63 but at all other times the bus is generally a few minutes quicker towards Bradford, and much quicker towards Huddersfield.Last time I used the Bradford Huddersfield service it spent most of it's time stood still at Halifax, Brighouse and longest of all Bradley junction where I could watch my Manchester trans pennine go past. I believe it still has time allowed for the never built Elland Station. Far quicker by bus so a complete waste of time and resource.
May doo better if they could speed it up a bit and link it to the Sheffield service.
K
Just making the point that the railway is a lot more expensive/complicated than it needs to be - at a time when we have insufficient staff/ trains, we are taking up two DMUs and two sets of staff to run an hourly service to link two places less than nineteen miles apart (by rail - obviously closer as the crow flies).
If the line speeds are so slow that it's impossible to cover nineteen miles in under half an hour then it's tempting to give up and spend the subsidy on minibuses instead.
(I agree with @Andyh82, mind)
Presumably if they're staying any length of time they'll eventually get the PRM mods though? If I recall, it was a franchise commitment for all retained stock to have an interior refit anyway, which would satisfy many of the requirements, although I know some TOCs had concerns about the amount of space that an accessible toilet would take up in a 1-car unit.Northern will be applying (or has already applied) for a derogation to continue using solo, non-PRM 153s on at least two routes
That depends on how long that mode of operation is required. Platform availability at Huddersfield won't improve until the mainline stoppers are rejoined, which now might not happen until after the route upgrade and rebuild. Transport for Wales (the TOC) recently unveiled their PRM-ed 153, so it can be done... but at peak times they might be a bit too small even on those two Northern routes. Particularly if the TPE stopper is cancelled that hour!Presumably if they're staying any length of time they'll eventually get the PRM mods though? If I recall, it was a franchise commitment for all retained stock to have an interior refit anyway, which would satisfy many of the requirements, although I know some TOCs had concerns about the amount of space that an accessible toilet would take up in a 1-car unit.
Double 150s fit, but not doubles of 23m stock. Platform extensions will enable that next year.Returning to topic, one current use of the 153 fleet is to make 3-car trains on the Rochdale-Victoria-Blackburn/Clitheroe services, where I believe longer formations are not used due to platform lengths.
What a waste of a 158!Man Vic-Stalybridge shuttles booked a 153+158 from the TT change too!