Aviation Discussion

Butts · 4 Dec 2019

Techniquest said:
Which I suppose does make sense, if you can get a booking for Dublin to Orlando via London for say £2,000 with a significant undercut of your competitor then that's £2,000 you'd have not otherwise had. Better than leaving the seats potentially go unsold!

Sometimes you do get some weird and wonderful options with travel agents. TravelRepublic gave me a funky one when I did Prague, having requested a search for fares from Manchester, London and a few other places. Jet2 Manchester to Prague and Flybe Prague to London Southend. All in one booking, accommodation included, and I didn't have any faffing around to do, quite fortunate since booking such a routing on my own would have meant faffing around with two separate airline bookings, with the return fare in the local currency no doubt and a Foreign Transaction Fee from the bank on top of that. So to be fair TravelRepublic did me proud, I haven't used them in a while but that could soon change.

My advice to Butts, as FQTV said, is again to NOT CANCEL THE TRIP.

If FQTV is correct and i am only liable for the deposit i have paid namely £400 then at least I have breathing space.

A lot of people on here probably travel Business Class all the time and to them it is nothing special. To me and my son it will be a real treat and I want every aspect of it to be perfect maximising my return in the form of freebies for the outlay. I understand their attitude as 20 odd years ago i had a job where i stayed in Hotels all the time. Friends couldn't understand why I was sick of steak and longed for beans on toast. Familiarity breeds contempt !!!

Will mull it over !!!

I have already booked flights to Ireland and back on the specific dates in the Last Minute booking to join my flights.

Getting mightily tempted by Aer Lingus on the same dates Direct and with USA pre-clearance in Dublin for about £1.5K each.

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Royston Vasey · 4 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Familiarity breeds contempt !!!

Summing up, in three words, the FlyerTalk BAEC forum :lol:

Techniquest · 4 Dec 2019

I haven't looked at the thread on TripAdvisor, but it does sound concerning from what you've posted here. However, I'm not sure what else I can recommend regarding your proposed cancellation of the booking and any fees you may incur apart from the advice already handed out.

I'm curious what craft type you've booked onto with BA. Naturally it's subject to change in the meantime, I'm guessing 777 or 380?

As for Business Class, I've never flown anything but Economy, and to be honest most of the time the only thing that appeals is the fancier seat and a lie-flat bed. That's not always the case, although which airlines in particular I'd avoid Business Class on I don't actually recall immediately. The food in Business Class, seemingly all of YouTube swoons over but I've never seen anything offered that I'd really go for. So for me, I'd rather slum it in Economy!

Butts · 4 Dec 2019

Techniquest said:
I haven't looked at the thread on TripAdvisor, but it does sound concerning from what you've posted here. However, I'm not sure what else I can recommend regarding your proposed cancellation of the booking and any fees you may incur apart from the advice already handed out.

I'm curious what craft type you've booked onto with BA. Naturally it's subject to change in the meantime, I'm guessing 777 or 380?

As for Business Class, I've never flown anything but Economy, and to be honest most of the time the only thing that appeals is the fancier seat and a lie-flat bed. That's not always the case, although which airlines in particular I'd avoid Business Class on I don't actually recall immediately. The food in Business Class, seemingly all of YouTube swoons over but I've never seen anything offered that I'd really go for. So for me, I'd rather slum it in Economy!

I have checked out the regulations regarding voluntary cancellation of packaged trips like mine.

Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018

Any Termination Fees must be "reasonable and justifiable"

Last Minutes booking terms 84+ day cancellation

Lose all of deposit paid plus any additional cancellation charges from your supplier ( second part 8 months out would fail the test)

The reason I want to go in Business Class is that it's a special treat and my son and I would like all the trimmings. I've never experienced a "lie flat" either. For the final time I will be hitting the Theme Parks if my old bones will stand it.

It is a 777 , last time 10 years ago we went in WTP so fancied upping the game for my final foray. Then you didn't have to pay to book seats in advance - you even have to pay in Business Class (with no status like me)

darloscott · 4 Dec 2019

Techniquest said:
I haven't looked at the thread on TripAdvisor, but it does sound concerning from what you've posted here. However, I'm not sure what else I can recommend regarding your proposed cancellation of the booking and any fees you may incur apart from the advice already handed out.

I'm curious what craft type you've booked onto with BA. Naturally it's subject to change in the meantime, I'm guessing 777 or 380?

As for Business Class, I've never flown anything but Economy, and to be honest most of the time the only thing that appeals is the fancier seat and a lie-flat bed. That's not always the case, although which airlines in particular I'd avoid Business Class on I don't actually recall immediately. The food in Business Class, seemingly all of YouTube swoons over but I've never seen anything offered that I'd really go for. So for me, I'd rather slum it in Economy!

I'm nothing like a regular traveller but I've done more than my fair share of travelling in business, of course you have to know what you're actually getting to make it worthwhile. Short haul business especially in Europe is generally the same seat maybe with the middle free (e.g. BA) and really not worth the extra cash (or miles) but if you can hit a long haul aircraft (e.g. Again with BA, Heathrow to Madrid has the 777) then its far more of a hard product with a long haul business seat. One comment I would add though is once you've tried it, it is very hard to go back!

Techniquest · 5 Dec 2019

Oh no doubt, I've seen European Business Class and I agree it doesn't look worth the extra money. JAL's Business Class on their 787s at least looked really nice, and is so far the one cabin I've seen I would actually pay the extra for if I could afford it.

Butts, fair game for wanting to make the trip more special. Can't say I blame you there, indeed you've just reminded me that for my 100th flight I fancy doing something a bit special, a little more unusual/unique. I won't hit that number for a couple of years realistically yet, so I have a while to figure it out. I would put money on it being a long-haul flight, probably on a winner airline, but we'll see.

Tetchytyke · 5 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Could I draw your attention to a thread entitled "Anyone Else Disappointed by Last Minute .com on Trip Advisor and see if you still hold them in high esteem.

Don't go off TripAdvisor, it's a bit of a zoo these days.

With online travel agents you lose some flexibility before you fly- you're not the airline's responsibility- but you can get good deals.

I wouldn't worry yourself!

Bald Rick · 5 Dec 2019

Gatwick - Orlando with BA is 777-200s. And they are not new. Although supposedly with a ‘refreshed’ cabin.

Butts · 6 Dec 2019

Tetchytyke said:
Don't go off TripAdvisor, it's a bit of a zoo these days.

With online travel agents you lose some flexibility before you fly- you're not the airline's responsibility- but you can get good deals.

I wouldn't worry yourself!

Can I just summise my areas of concern.....

I have paid £400 towards a booking that amounts to £4100 for the flights and the Hotel. I don't have to pay any more until the balance a month before we travel in July next year.

Since I booked the exact flights I am scheduled to travel on have risen to over 9000 Euros on BA's website that's twice as much as my entire trip. My biggest concern is that they have not purchased the Airline Tickets yet and when I pay the balance will claim the original schedule is no longer available and try and fob me off on some other flights if any are available. The exact flights I requested and correct class are displayed on the booking.

So the key question here is are they able to secure a flight at a fixed price with BA 9 months in the future without paying any money up front - or very little as I have only paid £400. If so no problem.

On my online account booking details there are two ticket number beginning with 125........ There is a space for a "PNR" Code. It says this will only be released when I pay the balance off.

What is this PNR code and when I have access to it does it mean I will be able to access the booking as though I had done it myself directly from BA. IE can I then forget about them and check in online myself and or choose seats ?

Butts · 6 Dec 2019

Bald Rick said:
Gatwick - Orlando with BA is 777-200s. And they are not new. Although supposedly with a ‘refreshed’ cabin.

I agree not the most exciting prospect but bear in mind the price paid and the fact my son and I will be "Flat Bed" Virgins. Anything is going to be an improvement on "cattle" for 9 hours.

Weird how these airfares work - on the BA website my schedule starting in Dublin is now 11583 Euros but only .....£6200 direct from Gatwick cutting out the Irish Leg. bear mind I have reserved at just over £3K less than a week ago. At that time it was cheaper starting in Dublin.

Bald Rick · 6 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Weird how these airfares work - on the BA website my schedule starting in Dublin is now 11583 Euros but only .....£6200 direct from Gatwick cutting out the Irish Leg. bear mind I have reserved at just over £3K less than a week ago. At that time it was cheaper starting in Dublin.

It’s the same for anything that has variable pricing through yield management. Car Hire, Hotels, etc. Prices can move about wildly.

berneyarms · 6 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Can I just summise my areas of concern.....

I have paid £400 towards a booking that amounts to £4100 for the flights and the Hotel. I don't have to pay any more until the balance a month before we travel in July next year.

Since I booked the exact flights I am scheduled to travel on have risen to over 9000 Euros on BA's website that's twice as much as my entire trip. My biggest concern is that they have not purchased the Airline Tickets yet and when I pay the balance will claim the original schedule is no longer available and try and fob me off on some other flights if any are available. The exact flights I requested and correct class are displayed on the booking.

So the key question here is are they able to secure a flight at a fixed price with BA 9 months in the future without paying any money up front - or very little as I have only paid £400. If so no problem.

On my online account booking details there are two ticket number beginning with 125........ There is a space for a "PNR" Code. It says this will only be released when I pay the balance off.

What is this PNR code and when I have access to it does it mean I will be able to access the booking as though I had done it myself directly from BA. IE can I then forget about them and check in online myself and or choose seats ?

Airline pricing fluctuates wildly - you have a discounted price that you got at a point in time.

Lastminute.com would be out of business if they started doing what you're suggesting they might do.

You have a contract with them at the price quoted at the time of booking.

The PNR code is the global airline system booking reference.

Butts · 7 Dec 2019

berneyarms said:
Airline pricing fluctuates wildly - you have a discounted price that you got at a point in time.

Lastminute.com would be out of business if they started doing what you're suggesting they might do.

You have a contract with them at the price quoted at the time of booking.

The PNR code is the global airline system booking reference.

And once I get access to this code it will be like I made the booking myself and I can check in online etc and choose seats ?

paddington · 8 Dec 2019

Butts said:
And once I get access to this code it will be like I made the booking myself and I can check in online etc and choose seats ?

You may have to pay to choose seats on BA. It could be over £100 for each flight. Some tickets come with free seat selection, but not sure if yours does. It will be free 24 hours before departure, but by then many seats will have been taken and some will not be available to choose even if they are not yet taken.

Whether you can check in online will depend on BA and the American authorities. Occasionally they will not let you check in until a human agent sees your passport at the airport, particularly on flights to the USA. Choosing your seat (whether this is free or paid) is not particularly relevant to checking in.

By the way, when you say the flights are €9000 on BA.com, do you mean the flights themselves or a package including hotel with BA Holidays? BA Holidays bookings can often be cheaper than the flights themselves when you add a hotel stay and/or a hire car. Furthermore, BA Holidays also allows you to pay a deposit and then the balance a month or so before departure.

The travel agent will not have paid BA anything yet (except possibly a deposit, which could be more or less than £400), but the booking is confirmed at the price you agreed. The fact that you have a booking may have caused BA to increase the price as they are only willing to sell a certain number of seats at lower prices (factoring in the chance that people in your situation will cancel). If you did cancel, it is possible the flights would become cheaper again as you would have freed up some seats.... but you can't rely on this happening. Other people may also have booked this flight in the meantime.

Butts · 8 Dec 2019

paddington said:
You may have to pay to choose seats on BA. It could be over £100 for each flight. Some tickets come with free seat selection, but not sure if yours does. It will be free 24 hours before departure, but by then many seats will have been taken and some will not be available to choose even if they are not yet taken.

Whether you can check in online will depend on BA and the American authorities. Occasionally they will not let you check in until a human agent sees your passport at the airport, particularly on flights to the USA. Choosing your seat (whether this is free or paid) is not particularly relevant to checking in.

By the way, when you say the flights are €9000 on BA.com, do you mean the flights themselves or a package including hotel with BA Holidays? BA Holidays bookings can often be cheaper than the flights themselves when you add a hotel stay and/or a hire car. Furthermore, BA Holidays also allows you to pay a deposit and then the balance a month or so before departure.

The travel agent will not have paid BA anything yet (except possibly a deposit, which could be more or less than £400), but the booking is confirmed at the price you agreed. The fact that you have a booking may have caused BA to increase the price as they are only willing to sell a certain number of seats at lower prices (factoring in the chance that people in your situation will cancel). If you did cancel, it is possible the flights would become cheaper again as you would have freed up some seats.... but you can't rely on this happening. Other people may also have booked this flight in the meantime.

Flights are 9000 + Euros on BA from Dublin or £6200 from Gatwick. When I booked it was cheaper from Ireland - five large less at least !!

I didn't want to pay in Euros on my card hence my reason for using Last Minute.

It's ridiculous that without status you have to pay a ton for a seat. With the layout of the Business Cabin hopefully they will seat us together or adjacent to each other.

Hotel is a bag of sand in addition to the air fares above.

AlterEgo · 8 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Flights are 9000 + Euros on BA from Dublin or £6200 from Gatwick. When I booked it was cheaper from Ireland - five large less at least !!

I didn't want to pay in Euros on my card hence my reason for using Last Minute.

It's ridiculous that without status you have to pay a ton for a seat. With the layout of the Business Cabin hopefully they will seat us together or adjacent to each other.

Hotel is a bag of sand in addition to the air fares above.

Gatwick flights - especially to Orlando - tend not to be too heavy with status travellers so there will be a few open at the time of check in. Don't hope for a window seat though.

Butts · 8 Dec 2019

AlterEgo said:
Gatwick flights - especially to Orlando - tend not to be too heavy with status travellers so there will be a few open at the time of check in. Don't hope for a window seat though.

The booking is for my son and I. Do you think they will automatically seat us together ? ( he is an Adult)

Seats are up to £100 each to pre-book when I have done a "dummy run" on BA's site. Not bothered about a window seat.

Also on the return our connection time at Gatwick is 1 hour 35 minutes to catch the Dublin Flight. Same terminal at Gatwick (South) is that long enough ?

Techniquest · 8 Dec 2019

I made a connection with LOADS of time to spare in Abu Dhabi, not sure how long it was but I think it was around 90 minutes. So I'd not panic.

Tetchytyke · 8 Dec 2019

Yield management on airlines is a dark art, although they're no longer allowed to play the Ryanair Cookies trick, the more you look the more likely it is to increase.

90 minutes will be plenty and, if not, there are plenty of other Dublin flights to get you back.

Butts · 8 Dec 2019

Tetchytyke said:
Yield management on airlines is a dark art, although they're no longer allowed to play the Ryanair Cookies trick, the more you look the more likely it is to increase.

90 minutes will be plenty and, if not, there are plenty of other Dublin flights to get you back.

Wouldn't be a disaster if we did miss it - I take it our bags wouldn't go unless we did as well.

Could get a train back to Birmingham - now theres a thought "stopping short" on an Aircraft Journey.

atillathehunn · 8 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Wouldn't be a disaster if we did miss it - I take it our bags wouldn't go unless we did as well.

Could get a train back to Birmingham - now theres a thought "stopping short" on an Aircraft Journey.

It's plenty of time to make the connection but your bags wouldn't go ahead of you.

Stopping short is possible but you won't be allowed to ask for your bags to be delivered at LGW. They would reprice the ticket. The way to do this is to get a LHR or LCY connection to Dublin because you are then required to pick up your bags. Then just "miss" your next flight. As long as you don't make a habit of it you will not have a problem.

Bletchleyite · 9 Dec 2019

Never however stop short on the outward leg of a return legacy airline ticket - they will cancel the rest of it without refund!

Tetchytyke · 9 Dec 2019

Butts said:
Wouldn't be a disaster if we did miss it - I take it our bags wouldn't go unless we did as well.

Could get a train back to Birmingham - now theres a thought "stopping short" on an Aircraft Journey.

You probably wouldn't be able to get your bags back at LGW if your flight is LGW-DUB, unless you can persuade them to re-route you via Heathrow.

On that subject, make sure you leave plenty of time for your last flight from Dublin back to Brum.

atillathehunn · 9 Dec 2019

Tetchytyke said:
You probably wouldn't be able to get your bags back at LGW if your flight is LGW-DUB, unless you can persuade them to re-route you via Heathrow.

On that subject, make sure you leave plenty of time for your last flight from Dublin back to Brum.

They will refuse, as I said above, unless your connection is more than a certain (very high) number of hours.

However if they do give you the bags and then you are a no show on the next flight you will almost certainly be pursued for the cost of the rerouted ticket as though it terminated at LGW. Better to fly to Dublin as planned.

paddington · 9 Dec 2019

atillathehunn said:
It's plenty of time to make the connection but your bags wouldn't go ahead of you.

Stopping short is possible but you won't be allowed to ask for your bags to be delivered at LGW. They would reprice the ticket. The way to do this is to get a LHR or LCY connection to Dublin because you are then required to pick up your bags. Then just "miss" your next flight. As long as you don't make a habit of it you will not have a problem.

No, they will not refuse to give your bags back at LGW, but it may take 2 hours to get them as they will be sent to the next aircraft and need to be retrieved manually. If you don't get on the flight, they have no choice but to return your bags.

Nobody will be asked to pay anything. However, it is possible that BA will send an invoice to lastminute for the price difference (at the time of booking) between DUB-LGW-MCO-LGW-DUB, and DUB-LGW-MCO-LGW, but it may take a month or two for this to happen. If it does happen, lastminute may pay the invoice and then send a bill to Butts. But lastminute may refuse to pay the invoice, or BA may not send an invoice at all. BA will not charge the passenger anything. If Butts was a status member of BAEC or had a lot of Avios, BA may cancel the account.

Most likely, nothing will happen and Butts will just spend 2 hours waiting at Gatwick for the bags but save a trip to Dubiln and back.

Agree that booking an airport change is the easiest way to avoid any hassle if intending to skip the last flight.

FrodshamJnct · 11 Dec 2019

LPL closed this morning due to an aircraft accident so check with your airline if departing. Arrivals are being diverted. Aircraft involved looks to be 9H-VJM and is apparently a runway excursion.

fowler9 · 11 Dec 2019

Tom Maddox said:
LPL closed this morning due to an aircraft accident so check with your airline if departing. Arrivals are being diverted. Aircraft involved looks to be 9H-VJM and is apparently a runway excursion.

A Bombardier Global 6000 slid off either the runway or taxiway near to the terminal depending on what you read. Some flights diverted to Manchester but JLA has been shut all day. One of the directors who runs Fenway Sports Group who own Liverpool Football Club was the only passenger. No one hurt, thousands very annoyed.

Not an insignificant sized aircraft. Bombardier make a similar sized aircraft that seats 66-78 people. The guy is obviously loaded.

Bald Rick · 11 Dec 2019

fowler9 said:
Not an insignificant sized aircraft. Bombardier make a similar sized aircraft that seats 66-78 people. The guy is obviously loaded.

It’s owned by a private jet company. He’d have been paying for it by the hour. Even if he flew in from North America, it would have cost him about a quarter of Salah’s weekly wage.

FrodshamJnct · 11 Dec 2019

Bald Rick said:
It’s owned by a private jet company. He’d have been paying for it by the hour. Even if he flew in from North America, it would have cost him about a quarter of Salah’s weekly wage.

He did. 9H-VJM from BED-LPL.

Crawley Ben · 12 Dec 2019

EasyJet launching a 3x weekly service from Gatwick to Tirana, Albania next May (going head to head against BA whose current service is 5x weekly (happy to be corrected if wrong)

Easyjet also launching a twice weekly service to Enfidha, Tunisia in 2020.

Cheers

Ben

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