• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Level crossing incident near Norwich new RAIB investigation

Status
Not open for further replies.

notverydeep

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2014
Messages
877
An interesting and alarming incident with a level crossing clearing to road traffic as a train approached is to be investigated by the RAIB...

Details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

Here is a key extract of the initial statement:
The crossing barriers were in the lowered position until the train, travelling at about 45 mph (72 km/h), was about 200 metres from the crossing. The barriers then lifted, the level crossing warning lights went out and cars began to cross the railway. The train driver applied the train’s emergency brake and sounded its warning horn, but the train was unable to stop before reaching the crossing. No road vehicles were struck but a car passed in front of the train around a quarter of a second before the train went over the crossing.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
7,601
RAiB are investigating an incident with a 755 on the Sheringham line involving a level crossing 2 Sundays ago.
 

eastdyke

Established Member
Joined
25 Jan 2010
Messages
1,923
Location
East Midlands
RAiB are investigating an incident with a 755 on the Sheringham line involving a level crossing 2 Sundays ago.
Thank you, yes have just seen all the other threads.
Horrendous, shocking for the crews, just why has it taken so long to get to the situation today :?::?:
 

F Great Eastern

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Messages
3,589
Location
East Anglia
Missed the vehicle by a quarter of a second, must have been horrific for the driver:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/near-miss-at-norwich-road-level-crossing

At about 19:53 hrs on Sunday 24 November 2019, a 4-coach class 755 passenger train, operating the 19:45 Norwich to Sheringham service, was approaching Norwich Road automatic half barrier level crossing, to the north-east of Norwich. The crossing barriers were in the lowered position until the train, travelling at about 45 mph (72 km/h), was about 200 metres from the crossing. The barriers then lifted, the level crossing warning lights went out and cars began to cross the railway. The train driver applied the train’s emergency brake and sounded its warning horn, but the train was unable to stop before reaching the crossing. No road vehicles were struck but a car passed in front of the train around a quarter of a second before the train went over the crossing.

The level crossing equipment was installed in 2000 and includes a predictor system which detects the speed of approaching trains so that the time interval between barriers being lowered and a train arriving is similar for all trains, irrespective of their speed. The train was part of a new fleet which had been operating passenger services on this line since 6 November 2019.

Since the incident, Network Rail has modified the settings of this and similar level crossings on the line to reduce the chance of a repeat of this incident.

Our investigation will identify the sequence of events which led to the incident. It will also consider:

  • the design, implementation and operation of the predictor system, including any effects of rail head contamination due to fallen leaves
  • the design of relevant elements of the class 755 train and the process for accepting it for use on this route
  • any underlying factors.
Our investigation is independent of any investigation by the railway industry, the Office of Rail and Road.

We will publish our findings, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of our investigation. This report will be available on our website.

You can subscribe to automated emails notifying you when we publish our reports.

Another worrying development with the continued farce of the roll out of the 755s.
 

Islineclear3_1

Established Member
Joined
24 Apr 2014
Messages
5,836
Location
PTSO or platform depending on the weather
Already a thread on this...

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-near-norwich-new-raib-investigation.196308/

An interesting and alarming incident with a level crossing clearing to road traffic as a train approached is to be investigated by the RAIB...

Details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

Here is a key extract of the initial statement:
The crossing barriers were in the lowered position until the train, travelling at about 45 mph (72 km/h), was about 200 metres from the crossing. The barriers then lifted, the level crossing warning lights went out and cars began to cross the railway. The train driver applied the train’s emergency brake and sounded its warning horn, but the train was unable to stop before reaching the crossing. No road vehicles were struck but a car passed in front of the train around a quarter of a second before the train went over the crossing.
 

F Great Eastern

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2009
Messages
3,589
Location
East Anglia
Is this most unusual considering I thought the default was for the barriers to remain down in the event of a failure?

Has this happened before with a track circuit or treadle failure?

All of the 755s are off service this morning because of track circuit, wheelslip protection and signalling issues specific to the stock which has decimated rural and local services
 

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,178
Location
Spain
Sounds like inadequate risk assessment in respect of introducing a new class of train on to the network to me. RAIB will, no doubt, have an opinion about it.

Many years ago, early 1970’s, there was a wrong side failure there resulting in the barriers not lowering and the lights not flashing. Revolved around ice in a track relay stopping the relay releasing. Not likely to have any relevance to this event though.
 

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,178
Location
Spain
Network Rail really aren't fit purpose.

Really? It wasn’t Network Rail who introduced a new type of train was it? Wouldn’t the TOC be responsible for risk assessing the introduction of a new type of train against the existing infrastructure?
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,955
I've heard conflicting reports - Richard Clinnick seems to think they do.
Should be easy enough to see in a picture, I'll have a look online.

Edit - yes there appear to be TCAs on the outer articulated bogies, can clearly be seen in this video:
 
Last edited:

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Redcar
Really? It wasn’t Network Rail who introduced a new type of train was it? Wouldn’t the TOC be responsible for risk assessing the introduction of a new type of train against the existing infrastructure?

No lover of Network Rail but don't think you can blame them here.

Solely blamed, no. But are we suggesting that Network Rail have no input in this process? What about the Head of Vehicle Compatibility that liaises with the ORR?
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,955
The RSSB should be in the crossfire more than NwR.
 

O L Leigh

Established Member
Joined
20 Jan 2006
Messages
5,611
Location
In the cab with the paper
AHBs don't normally rely on track circuits but rather treadles, so the efficacy of TCAs really has nothing to do with it. I believe this is the case where predictors are used also, although I'm happy to be corrected. Certainly a number of AHBs on my route card have a bewildering array of treadles leading up to them.
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,955
You'll probably find that the treadles are fairly near to IRJs - certainly all the AHBs on the routes I sign are. A treadle isn't fail-safe.
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,451
TCA?
Is this the "problem with a level crossing" that's caused delay and bustitution on the Sheringham branch for the past few days?
Guess today's mass cancellations mean someone thinks it might be the train that's got the problem rather than the level crossing?
Hard to understand how a wrong side failure could happen in that way. I could sort of understand if a track circuit hadn't been activated for whatever reason, the barriers wouldn't come down. But they came down and then raised, as though the signalling system believed the train had passed through. Very odd.
 

Llama

Established Member
Joined
29 Apr 2014
Messages
1,955
Track circuit actuator (or, more properly, track circuit assister). No doubt someone will correct me, but as I understand it a bit of kit under a self propelled traction unit that induces a high frequency AC voltage between the rails, which helps break down any insulating layer of contamination when the train wheels short that circuit by acting as an electrical shunt. This assists the correct operation of track circuits, where the voltage is supplied separately by the infrastructure.
 

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,178
Location
Spain
Solely blamed, no. But are we suggesting that Network Rail have no input in this process? What about the Head of Vehicle Compatibility that liaises with the ORR?

According to the RAIB report the level crossing equipment was installed in 2000, so it’s worked well for around 19 years. The thing that has changed is the rolling stock.

Changes of this type are - or should be - managed under the Common Safety Method, which is mandated by ROGS. So whoever is proposing the change, which it seems is the TOC, is responsible for implementing the process and managing it. Yes, they can involve other stakeholders, but the overall process rests with the proposer of change.
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,759
All of the 755s are off service this morning because of track circuit, wheelslip protection and signalling issues specific to the stock which has decimated rural and local services

Yes also hearing the wheels are suffering from 'rust' ! add that to leaf mulch, and you can see why they are in such a position. Units being examined after every journey currently, so what happens tomorrow ??
 

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,852
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
Yes also hearing the wheels are suffering from 'rust' ! add that to leaf mulch, and you can see why they are in such a position. Units being examined after every journey currently, so what happens tomorrow ??
Maybe they'll all be visiting the wheel lathe tomorrow.... and for a few days more!
 

ashkeba

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2019
Messages
2,171
Pointing the finger at the wrong Company there ! bear in mind all other unit types work the crossings OK.
The crossing may be out of spec but work with the older units... We do not know until something is published.
 

tpjm

Member
Joined
25 Jan 2019
Messages
484
Location
The North
Really? It wasn’t Network Rail who introduced a new type of train was it? Wouldn’t the TOC be responsible for risk assessing the introduction of a new type of train against the existing infrastructure?

How is the TOC supposed to test their new train against the infrastructure? The infrastructure is not maintained, owned, or installed by the TOC, the ROSCO or the Rolling Stock Manufacturer. The only testing they have to conduct is for things that they can control, i.e. stopping position to account for wheelchair ramps and signal sighting, etc.

Given that a Certificate of Compatibility will have been issued by NR for this train, I'd be looking to them to understand how they didn't spot something unique to this type of stock that could cause this type of infrastructure to not perform as predicted. Some blame also rests with the manufacturer, as their contract with the ROSCO/TOC will probably stipulate that the stock has to work within the parameters of particular routes.
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,759
The crossing may be out of spec but work with the older units... We do not know until something is published.
Trains need to work the TC's to make it work, looks like a wheel to rail issue ?
 

LAX54

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2008
Messages
3,759
How is the TOC supposed to test their new train against the infrastructure? The infrastructure is not maintained, owned, or installed by the TOC, the ROSCO or the Rolling Stock Manufacturer. The only testing they have to conduct is for things that they can control, i.e. stopping position to account for wheelchair ramps and signal sighting, etc.

Given that a Certificate of Compatibility will have been issued by NR for this train, I'd be looking to them to understand how they didn't spot something unique to this type of stock that could cause this type of infrastructure to not perform as predicted. Some blame also rests with the manufacturer, as their contract with the ROSCO/TOC will probably stipulate that the stock has to work within the parameters of particular routes.
Which is what all the 5Qxx trips are, and still are, and it seems nothing flagged up, they have also run to Lowestoft / Yarmouth / Cromer / Cambridge with no issues, until suddenly this week, maybe the profile of the wheels ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top