Should 1st class upgrades, such as SeatFrot, offer Railcard discounts?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stuck-in-a-seat-i-dont-want-and-seatfrog-with-railcard.196314/

Why should seat frog offer a railcard discount. To me doing so would be totally unacceptable.

A £5 upgrade bid should be the same for everyone. If you can’t afford it don’t bid. Subsidising railcard holders in first class is wrong. They would have already had a massive discount had they booked.

It's entirely up to the operator.

Most first class ticket types are discountable by most National Railcards. There are exceptions of course, such as the 16-25 Railcard only discounting Advance fares.

Many upgrades also offer Railcard discounts, but equally many do not.

Ultimately rail tickets are - whether people like it or not - based on market based pricing models and yield management techniques, so a range of prices can be charged depending on flexibility, service provision, date/time of booking, and perceived ability to pay.

It's not a matter of "subsidy"; there is a subsidy to run services but that is a different concept. The train company then tries to raise revenue through ticket sales to maximise overall income. If you think a train company does not have the optimal model, you could point that out to them. They may disagree with you and continue their existing model or maybe they will listen. But you'd have to put a convincing case together for them to take you seriously.

Sorry about violations of the forum rules. But actually the TOC is getting less.

I bid £20 but have no railcard.
you bid £21 but have a railcard.

I lose.
The TOC loses as they get £14 real money.

true it is up to the TOC and it is the same in a buying direct. But surely it is wrong that someone can submit a lower bid in terms of real money (but win) because they have a railcard. Glad they don’t offer railcard discounts on weekend upgrades. I don’t think LNER offer railcard discounts or certainly not on the family one.

It's absolutely fine to question it; it's just best not done in someone's thread for advice for their particular journey that's all. Anyway no worries!

I take your point that in a bidding situation a Railcard discount doesn't really make sense .

Seatfrog is based on a bidding process so I am not sure it is compatible with Railcard discounts; are you sure it does apply and if it does, do we know how it works exactly?

For other upgrades I see no harm in it. For example I frequently travel in 1st on one particular train company (but very infrequently on other TOCs) because I am fortunate enough to get a hefty discount. I tend to travel on trains that do not have the highest 1st class loadings, but have higher Standard loadings, so it is mutually beneficial to me and the company. Even with the discount, I would not get the trains that have the highest 1st class fares (and this has been the case on all journeys I've made with them that I can recall with one exception, due to a funeral, that was not my choice)

I have only used it on LNER and it is not possible there. Just a straightforward bid situation.

on a recent Lincoln - London service 2 seats were on offer, so if you wanted more seats tough luck.

You could bid with any standard ticket. Even family railcard. But the bidding was real. If I bid £10 per seat that is what I paid. No option to add railcards. To me that is a fair way of doing things. I have already had a discount on my standard class seat. I bid what I believe is a fair price for my upgrade. (With everyone else competing on a level playing field)

If you open up Seatfrog to Railcard discounts do you open up other flat fee upgrades like weekend first and Advance purchase change of journey Fee? When you sign up for a railcard you sign to accept the terms and conditions no where does it mention a discount on Seatfrog.

Sounds like a case of wanting cake and eating it.

westv said:

Sounds like a case of wanting cake and eating it.

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In this day and age I can see why people would want such a thing to be available and why not with the price of everything rising.

But i can fully understand why its not offered

SeatFrot? Surely this only really applies on Japanese suburban services?.............

(I take it this was merely a typo in your title?)

reb0118 said:

SeatFrot? Surely this only really applies on Japanese suburban services?.............

(I take it this was merely a typo in your title?)

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With me it's seatfret!!