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Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

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A

ainsworth74

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Paul_10 said:
Although unfortunately those heaters seem to remain on all year round even in the summer!
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Well, whilst the heater is amazing in winter (like over the last couple of weeks), it is very basic as I believe it basically just works of the coolant loop of the engine! So basically is always on as the engine always requires cooling. I've noticed, during summer, that often when the train is sat in a station idling for a while there heater is not very noticeable but after the train has been in motion (and the engine therefore working hard) for five minutes or so suddenly the trouser leg becomes uncomfortably warm! :lol:

Paul_10 said:
Also old northern for whatever reason decided to remove the arm rests from the seats when the sets received their refresh 5 years ago.
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They weren't exactly that useful to begin with (they were very low!) and just represented something to be broken if my recollection is correct!
 
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simon7929

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The quality of metal used for the armrest can't have been up to a good standard. They used to snap off around the area where the arm pivoted exposing sharp metal contacts. I think it was cheaper just to remove them completely than replace them.
 
B

Bikeman78

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sprinterguy said:
Confirmation from RAIL of the first Pacer to be scrapped, and details of the units that have moved from Heaton to Worksop:
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I think 55 class 142 gone by the end of the year is rather optimistic. There are still around 50 in service each day so there's likely to be 55-60 still servicable. There are still a lot of them running around solo on busy routes. I believe the official plan is that they will be paired with another unit from January. How will this be achieved, especially for the 144s? Most of them run on their own on routes such as Leeds-Selby, York-Hull, Leeds-Lancaster, Leeds-Knottingley, Leeds-Sheffield and Sheffield-Hull.
 
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387star

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61653 HTAFC said:
The Northern Spirit "car seats" were far more prone to the headrests collapsing or being ripped off until SercoNedRail Northern recovered and reinforced them. They're definitely the "least-worst" of the Pacers.
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Quite unusual to have fabric backed seats
 
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BR 45111

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Pacer Slim Pickings - 7/12/19

Rotherham Central :
142070 1005 Sheffield - Adwick

Hull :
142090 1130 Sheffield - Hull , then 1353 return
142017 1330 Sheffield - Hull , then 1553 return
 
N

northernchris

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Bikeman78 said:
I think 55 class 142 gone by the end of the year is rather optimistic. There are still around 50 in service each day so there's likely to be 55-60 still servicable. There are still a lot of them running around solo on busy routes. I believe the official plan is that they will be paired with another unit from January. How will this be achieved, especially for the 144s? Most of them run on their own on routes such as Leeds-Selby, York-Hull, Leeds-Lancaster, Leeds-Knottingley, Leeds-Sheffield and Sheffield-Hull.
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It will be interesting to see what happens come a week on Monday when the new timetables kick in. I think it's been confirmed that 144s are remaining on South Yorkshire services (probably in solo formation) and a handful of 142s are being retained to strengthen some service around Manchester. I still think there's going to be more units leaving than arriving, which could mean less overall capacity
 
NorthernSpirit

NorthernSpirit

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NorthernSpirit said:
Here's a list.

Red - withdrawn.
Orange - scrapped.
Yellow - converted to other use (does not include food tins or razor blades).
Green - modified for Passengers of Reduced Mobility.
Blue - in storage.
Purple - preserved.

(Updates to the list will be bolded once finalised).

Class 142
001 - set to be preserved
002
003
004
005 - First to be withdrawn, now scrapped (updated as of 7th December 2019)
006
007
008 - Scrapped
009
010
011
012
013
014
015
016 - Withdrawn
017
018
019
020
021 - Withdrawn
022 - Withdrawn
023
024
025 - Withdrawn
026
027
028
029
030
031
032
033
034
035
036
037
038
039
040
041
042
043
044
045
046 - withdrawn
047
048
049
050
051
052
053
054
055
056
057
058
059 - Scrapped
060
061
062
063
064
065
066 - withdrawn
067
068
069
070
071
072
073
074
075
076
077
078
079
080
081
082
083
084
085
086
087
088
089
090
091
092
093
094
095
096

Class 143
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613 - Scrapped
614
615 - Scrapped
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625

Class 144 - All units stabled at Neville Hill.
001
002
003
004
005
006
007
008
009
010
011
012 - 144 Evolution has full PRM modifications.
013
014
015
016
017
018
019
020
021
022
023


I'll try and keep the list updated.
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Does anyone know if any of the class 143's have been scrapped yet?
 
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Bertie the bus

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Bikeman78 said:
I think 55 class 142 gone by the end of the year is rather optimistic. There are still around 50 in service each day so there's likely to be 55-60 still servicable. There are still a lot of them running around solo on busy routes. I believe the official plan is that they will be paired with another unit from January. How will this be achieved, especially for the 144s? Most of them run on their own on routes such as Leeds-Selby, York-Hull, Leeds-Lancaster, Leeds-Knottingley, Leeds-Sheffield and Sheffield-Hull.
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Exactly. They won’t be paired with compliant units. That is just a fantasy. Some might be but many won’t. As many of the routes in South Yorkshire, one of the areas Pacers will be concentrated in next year, run as 2-cars they are not going to strengthen them to 4-car so they can be paired with a compliant unit. What would be the point? Just run the service with the compliant unit and scrap the Pacer if that was going to happen. The reason Pacers are staying is because they couldn't run the service if they withdrawn so where would these compliant units to pair them with be conjured up from?
 
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Paul_10

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Bertie the bus said:
Exactly. They won’t be paired with compliant units. That is just a fantasy. Some might be but many won’t. As many of the routes in South Yorkshire, one of the areas Pacers will be concentrated in next year, run as 2-cars they are not going to strengthen them to 4-car so they can be paired with a compliant unit. What would be the point? Just run the service with the compliant unit and scrap the Pacer if that was going to happen.
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The 142s and some 2 car 144 will be paired to a complient unit for sure but I doubt the 3 car 144 will be.

Of course there be some 150 and 156s not complient going into the new year so if the rules are a non complient unit has to be paired with a complient unit then maybe we will see some short forms in places and riddiculasly long trains in others?

We will find out how they do it by January.
 
Karl

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I don't know why, and I know I'm totally off topic but I couldn't help being reminded of this classic Monty Python scene. I feel the Pacers are clinging on and are not going easily! Enjoy....

 
simon7929

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Can anybody confirm? Was 142044 the first 142 to receive a digital blind? Long before the MerseyRail refurbs. Possibly mid 90s? Thanks in advance.
 
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Chester1

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northernchris said:
It will be interesting to see what happens come a week on Monday when the new timetables kick in. I think it's been confirmed that 144s are remaining on South Yorkshire services (probably in solo formation) and a handful of 142s are being retained to strengthen some service around Manchester. I still think there's going to be more units leaving than arriving, which could mean less overall capacity
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The deadline is not the timetable change but 1st January. Northern will be judged (politically) by how many units need to be granted derogations. The 195 roll out seems to finally be going well.

NorthernSpirit said:
Does anyone know if any of the class 143's have been scrapped yet?
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None. Both TfW and GWR have been granted temporary derogations. The 769 project delays have a lot to answer for! I think its going to be quite a while before a 143 or 144 gets scrapped.

Bertie the bus said:
Exactly. They won’t be paired with compliant units. That is just a fantasy. Some might be but many won’t. As many of the routes in South Yorkshire, one of the areas Pacers will be concentrated in next year, run as 2-cars they are not going to strengthen them to 4-car so they can be paired with a compliant unit. What would be the point? Just run the service with the compliant unit and scrap the Pacer if that was going to happen. The reason Pacers are staying is because they couldn't run the service if they withdrawn so where would these compliant units to pair them with be conjured up from?
Click to expand...

I don't think it is a fantasy that the 2 coach units will be rostered as coupled up with compliant units. The liklihood of this actually working out on a daily basis is a different matter! Its much more achievable for TfW and GWR. It should work around Manchester too. Only a handful of 142s should be staying (I think latest plan is 9 units). Your right about 3 coach 142s, it would make most sense to run them on their own on services that will be run by 2 coach sprinters later next year.
 
bramling

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ainsworth74 said:
They can't win can they? If Northern keep them they get shouted at for keeping clapped out old trains in service but if they withdraw them they get shouted at for disposing of extra capacity!
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That’s the problem when politics interferes and inserts factors into the process like arbitrary dates and mayoral pressures.

To me the strategy on Northern is a mess. So the main issue (despite some people disliking Pacers) for the last decade or more has been lack of capacity especially on Northern’s many diesel routes. So the new franchise delivers a load of 2-car non-gangwayed diesels, whilst meanwhile procuring a load of new electrics.

Pacers aren’t wonderful but, perhaps with the exception of the Merseyrail versions, I’d rather a 4-car Pacer than a packed 2-car something else - and reality seems to be that the latter is what users are often going to get.

Many of the current franchises seem to be running into trouble - Northern, TPE, LNwR and GA, not to mention GTR. The current franchising setup just doesn’t seem to be delivering good results.
 
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Bertie the bus

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Chester1 said:
I don't think it is a fantasy that the 2 coach units will be rostered as coupled up with compliant units. The liklihood of this actually working out on a daily basis is a different matter! Its much more achievable for TfW and GWR. It should work around Manchester too. Only a handful of 142s should be staying (I think latest plan is 9 units). Your right about 3 coach 142s, it would make most sense to run them on their own on services that will be run by 2 coach sprinters later next year.
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With respect, considering some of the things you have posted on this thread, and the fact you believed Northern were going to introduce 70 of the new CAF units into service this year because they said they were even though it was obvious they weren’t, it doesn’t surprise me you don’t think it is a fantasy.
 
sprinterguy

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simon7929 said:
Can anybody confirm? Was 142044 the first 142 to receive a digital blind? Long before the MerseyRail refurbs. Possibly mid 90s? Thanks in advance.
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Neville Hill based 142080 (EDIT: 142081!) was trial fitted with a digital blind while still in Provincial livery circa 1995/6. I believe it was the first, and the subsequent Merseyrail blinds were of a different design as the blind fitted to 142081 was frequently barely legible beneath the standard application of BR grime.
 
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C

Chester1

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Bertie the bus said:
With respect, considering some of the things you have posted on this thread, and the fact you believed Northern were going to introduce 70 of the new CAF units into service this year because they said they were even though it was obvious they weren’t, it doesn’t surprise me you don’t think it is a fantasy.
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Correct me if I am wrong but arent the new CAF units approaching 40 with a two batches to go? They are not as far behind schedule as your making out. The other factor delaying the pacers withdrawal is the absurd delays of 769s. 8 units are the equivalent capacity to 2/3rds of the 144 fleet and probably about half of the pacers likely to be in service in January.

Assuming there are 9 x 142 and 10 x 2 coach 144s in service in January it should be straightforward to roster them with other units. As I indicated in my post, that is different to them actually running with compliant units every day. There are more than 19 diagrams where Pacers run in pairs with either each other or sprinters.
 
simon7929

simon7929

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sprinterguy said:
Neville Hill based 142080 was trial fitted with a digital blind while still in Provincial livery circa 1995/6. I believe it was the first, and the subsequent Merseyrail blinds were of a different design as the blind fitted to 142080 was frequently barely legible beneath the standard application of BR grime.
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Thanks. I knew 081 had a digital blind. Never knew 080 did also.
 
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