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LMS 10000 - The Ivatt Diesel Re-creation Society

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Terry Tait

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31 Jul 2019
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Good luck to all concerned, I am really looking forward to seeing this locomotive out and about, me being not old enough to see the original ones.
 
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JKF

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Will you be moving the donor loco frames etc. down from Shacklestone(?) or will work be going on at two sites?
 

AHoseason

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The workshop is not a loco shed, so there are no plans to bring a full locomotive to it. but it is just what we need to store our growing collection of parts and start work on refurbishment of parts. A contractor is set to deal with the bogies at Swanwick after which they will be stripped for painting at another site.
 

AHoseason

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Our sleeper coach 10597 was delivered to Wirksworth by Reid Freight on Tuesday.
Thanks to Porterbrook for it's donation, which provides accommodation for volunteers
IMG_20191112_105141 50pc.jpg
 

AHoseason

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On Friday our President Stan Fletcher officially opened our workshop. It is named Centenary Works in recognition that this is his 100th year. Thank you to all the members and supporters who attended at Wirksworth today. We will now begin the process of refurbishing parts and financing to construct the loco. Please take this opportunity to come onboard and give £2 or more per month https://lms10000.co.uk
MICHAEL PRINCE  Image1_stitch1.jpg
 

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Ash Bridge

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What an amazing man is Stan Fletcher, that is a heartwarming sight to see. My congratulations to you all on the great and very professional progress made so far; a credit to all concerned! At the moment I can't really afford to come onboard but you can certainly count me in to make a contribution from time to time as and when I can afford.
 

AHoseason

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What an amazing man is Stan Fletcher, that is a heartwarming sight to see. My congratulations to you all on the great and very professional progress made so far; a credit to all concerned! At the moment I can't really afford to come onboard but you can certainly count me in to make a contribution from time to time as and when I can afford.

Thanks. All help is appreciated. Yes, Stan was a 'gentleman engineer' and is an inspiration to us all.
 

AHoseason

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The newly updated D16/1a GA has arrived. It is good to know that all equipment fits and comes in at the required weight.
80563658_10221894178171864_4179458514260852736_n.jpg
 

AHoseason

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Last week we were at the DPS to discuss the purchase of a Spanner boiler for 10000. This picture is of Tulyars boiler, which is not for sale, but the DPS have enough spares in stock for us to build up a boiler and provide a good supply of spares.

Thank you to the gents we sent in membership forms this week for 2, 5 or 10 a month. We are grateful for all regular income at this stage since we have a host of projects shortly in need of finance. Can you spare £2 a month or more? https://lms10000.co.uk/membership

ENjOOG_W4AEUpz5.jpg
Tulyar's boiler (not the one we are considering obtaining)
 

AHoseason

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A learning experience today as we stripped the first of our exhausters. Thanks to Bernard, Mark and Tony for their efforts
82859611_2245513175753290_1496063806437064704_n.jpg
 

AHoseason

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We currently have a unique and one-off opportunity to obtain parts and spares to complete our ‘shopping list’ of major items for the construction of 10000.
This includes traction motors and a large number of bogie spares from Holland, cooler groups and electrical equipment including alternators. These items are available to us but only if we move quickly - its now or never.

That’s the good news. The issue is that all of this equipment needs to be moved in a short space of time, during which we are already financially committed to moving two power units, lifting, stripping and moving the bogies and chassis, getting our new sleeper coach ready for volunteer use and covering the ongoing costs for our new Centenary Works building. Combined, an additional £30,000 will be needed.

To take up these fantastic opportunities, we need to raise funds to lift and transport these large and heavy items within the limited time they are available to us. Some of the items have been offered as donations if we are able to fund the transport, and all are in dry stored or running condition.
Please help the LMS10000 Project in any way you can to allow us to take advantage of these once in a lifetime opportunities.
Donations can be made by single payment or monthly instalments. All regular monthly donors are entitled to membership at no extra costs. You choose the rate you want to donate monthly. The average amount given is £10 a month. The more you donate the more benefits you accrue.
One off donations by cheque made out to the Ivatt Diesel Re-creation Society, 46 Biddick Village Centre, Washington, NE38 7NP, via direct banking to 30-94-77 50405860 or by Paypal at https://www.paypal.com/gb/fundraiser/112574636177901026/charity/139996

Lift and shift fund half page advert Jan 2020.jpg
 

Edders23

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I have a question as this is a new build but using an old engine does it qualify for grandfather rights under emission laws or would it count as a new locomotive and need special derogation ?
 

AHoseason

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I have a question as this is a new build but using an old engine does it qualify for grandfather rights under emission laws or would it count as a new locomotive and need special derogation ?

Passing on the reply given to me: UK law for a vehicle other than a road vehicle IDRS will require derogation for emissions, however Our locomotive will be fitted with various proven inexpensive improvements, like engine pre heat, that will reduce its carbon footprint. Due to its limited use this will be less than many buses still in use. It use will be carefully documented also.
 

notverydeep

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Passing on the reply given to me: UK law for a vehicle other than a road vehicle IDRS will require derogation for emissions, however Our locomotive will be fitted with various proven inexpensive improvements, like engine pre heat, that will reduce its carbon footprint. Due to its limited use this will be less than many buses still in use. It use will be carefully documented also.

I have read that you intend to re-use the main frame of a class 58. As (by convention at least) the mainframe constitutes a loco's identity, does that mean that the 'new' 10000 would count as a modified class 58 from the perspective of regulatory compliance and / or any derogations on areas such as emissions. In this case, might the emissions only need to meet the standards applicable to a class 58 - those applying in the mid 1980s? And that's definitely a question, rather than an assertion! A very interesting project and impressive progress to date...
 

Edders23

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that would be quite a stretch but bear in mind the prime mover was built in the 1950's albeit not used in a locomotive but there are a few Deltics running around with engines out of ships which is why I was wondering if this counts
 

AHoseason

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LMS10000 'Lift & Shift' Fund update
Thank you to those who have given generously so far. The total donated to our fund is £10,624.35
Having completed move 1 of 4 we await instructions from the third parties who have offered the traction motor and bogie parts in Holland and various electrical components and the second power unit, in the UK, along with moving our bogies for shotblasting and refurbishment.
If you are able to donate toward this important fund please go to our 'Donate' page https://lms10000.co.uk/donate

20200228_093616 a.jpg
 

AHoseason

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The power unit from class 58 58022 at Rowsley was removed on Saturday 15th of August following sale to IMPS of Lincoln, a company which refurbishes old diesel power units for further use as generators or in ships.

The Ivatt Diesel Re-creation Society, owner of 58022, will use the locomotives chassis to form the basis of the new class D16/1 number 10000, which will be third of the design and a living memorial to Britain's first mainline diesel locomotive of 1947.

The loco will be stripped down to release the chassis. There has not been a rush to do this, as the loco was stored at Peak Rail, and there were other priorities. However this task has now moved up the Society’s priority list.

Mark Walker, Chairman of the charity said: “Those who doubt the project will succeed have long pointed at the lack of activity on the 58 as evidence that we aren’t going anywhere, but the reality is that there was no point stripping it until we were ready. The bodywork, poor though it is, does provide protection for the chassis, which is the part we need.”

see the website https://lms10000.co.uk

Here's a pic taken on Saturday:

2020-08-15 11.38.34.jpg
 

Neptune

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A worthwhile project and I wish it every success.

Nice to see lots of up-cycling involved.
 

pdeaves

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Mark Walker, Chairman of the charity said: “Those who doubt the project will succeed have long pointed at the lack of activity on the 58 as evidence that we aren’t going anywhere, but the reality is that there was no point stripping it until we were ready. The bodywork, poor though it is, does provide protection for the chassis, which is the part we need.”
You've told us here before about the chassis being almost the right dimensions for 10000. I am interested to know, will you use it 'as is' or will there need to be cosmetic alterations to make it look right? Will it be totally hidden from sight such that it makes no difference what it looks like?
 

AHoseason

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You've told us here before about the chassis being almost the right dimensions for 10000. I am interested to know, will you use it 'as is' or will there need to be cosmetic alterations to make it look right? Will it be totally hidden from sight such that it makes no difference what it looks like?

Yes the chassis is nigh on perfectly the same size between the bogie centre lines. Some plasma cutting will be necessary on the sides and to create the inward curve of the body toward the buffers on the cab section, all of which will have no effect on the structural strength of the frame.

The Engineering Summary is available for download from:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z4NvayL-ZTpAAhDufQETZifbqvYeeoHi/view?usp=sharing
 

malc-c

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1 Dec 2017
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A very interesting read... One thing the document doesn't go into is the projected time scale or target for completion. Granted that may be difficult due to the project being dependent on volunteers and donations, but it would be interesting to hear when realistically we might see this reconstruction of loco 10000 heading up rail tours up and down the country. Five years, ten, twenty ??

It still seems wrong that the first two diesel locomotives were scrapped rather than preserved....
 

DB

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Apart from the chassis, are you reusing any other parts of the 58 in the rebuild?
 

DB

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Thanks - now read the engineering summary.

I was interested in this bit:
The auxiliary
alternator that we will be using is capable of far more
than the efficient operation of the loco systems, indeed
they have been proven to supply an ETH index of 100
on the class 57/3.

If I understand correctly, the ETS alternator on a 57/3 is one from a 47/4 uprated from an index to 66 to 100 - the traction alternator being from a Class 56 (the later 57/3 conversions had new alternators, built to the same designs). Has an ex-47/4 ETS alternator been obtained? I'm not entirely sure, but I assumed that they also provided the aux power, whereas the non-ETS 47s (and presumably 57/0s?) had a smaller aux-only alternator?

Incidentally - Red Diamond - isn't that the multiiple working system on 56/58? Wikipedia states that the original locos did have multi-working capability but doesn't give details - I would assume either blue star (if that had been invented then), or a proprietary system not used subsequently.
 

BigB

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20 Dec 2018
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Have a read of the engineering summary - it's quite informative :)
It certainly is - for those who haven't read it, it tells you pretty much all you need to believe in this project - they have thought long and hard about this and know what they are doing. Timescales are tricky - see any of the new build steam engines, but when you have to redesign many parts that does take time, and it will be great to see the end result, knowing where all the parts have come from!
I really appreciate the positive approach, especially the requirement to have spares, which can kill a project dead early on in the event of a catastrophic component failure.

Now, where were you chaps when the class 58 was struggling in BR days? ;)
 
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