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Northern: North West Sunday Crew Shortages

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northernchris

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It is worth noting that there are a lot of drivers who have worked extra days during training for 195s/331s who made use of an agreement whereby instead of taking payment they can take the day as a 'banked day' which can be taken at any time. You will hear a lot more about this in the run up to Christmas, things will get significantly worse in the next six weeks - not only will annual leave be maxed out and these 'banked days' be spent, but also drivers won't want to work as many rest days in the run up to Christmas because weekends are a nightmare for trouble and also the simple fact that they've got other things to do besides work.

Are the banked days not treated the same as rest days so there aren't days where there's high levels of uncovered jobs?
 
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scrapy

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Are the banked days not treated the same as rest days so there aren't days where there's high levels of uncovered jobs?
Banked rest days can be taken any time as long as the company are given sufficient notice (I think it's 7 days at Northern). They are usually given in very limited numbers mainly for carrying out union duties on a day when you wouldn't usually be working rather than paying overtime. For that reason as only a few people (usually only union reps) would have accrued any.

When 195/331 training was discussed management (foolishly in my opinion) offered a choice banked rest days instead of overtime which many drivers chose to take.
 

northernchris

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Banked rest days can be taken any time as long as the company are given sufficient notice (I think it's 7 days at Northern). They are usually given in very limited numbers mainly for carrying out union duties on a day when you wouldn't usually be working rather than paying overtime. For that reason as only a few people (usually only union reps) would have accrued any.

When 195/331 training was discussed management (foolishly in my opinion) offered a choice banked rest days instead of overtime which many drivers chose to take.

Thanks for clarifying. I'd do exactly the same, you don't get taxed on time ;)
 

Llama

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It was pointed out in meetings what would happen back when that agreement was signed last year. "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it" was the reply so I am told.
 

Starmill

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I doubt they care, they'll just drive.
Most people, including businesspeople, generally don't care about the 'Northern Hub' agenda. It hasn't really genuinely delivered... well, anything yet.

Equally, pretty much everyone who has access to a car will use that, and not the train even if an excellent service is provided. The current Sunday service round here ranges from absolute zero to diabolically unreliable.

Most business travel is going to be on long-distance or express trains anyway, not on stopping services on Northern.

As you know, being left to wait for 2 hours in late November temperatures at New Mills Central because all because 3/4 of the days services are cancelled at the last minute is a mistake that people will make only once.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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What exactly is said in the Northern franchise documentation about the provision of Sunday rail services.

What statements have been made by Andy Burnham about current and future Sunday rail services in his "master plan" for all modes of transport in his mayoral covered area?
 

Llama

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Probably very little, as it is the responsibility of the franchise operator to make sure they manage their staff to run services by whatever realistic means they choose as I understand it.
 

Killingworth

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Another disastrous Sunday. Many pre-planned cancellations; https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/news/travel-alerts/2386-timetables-change-sunday-nov24

"We do not cancel services lightly and routes with cancelled Sunday service are chosen carefully to minimise the impact on customers. On each of the affected routes, our customers will have a range of alternative options available to them including other Northern services, trains run by other operators or rail replacement road transport. All routes with pre-planned cancellations are advertised via the Northern website each Friday."

No mention there of Manchester - Sheffield although 4 of the hourly return services were cancelled, leaving a 3 hour gap this morning. Not much help if you planned to make a connection or meet an engagement.

Here is performance at Edale from RTT. There are no alternative buses or trains from Edale, it's walk or hitch a lift; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=actual
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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If Northern had the ability to transfer the Sunday part of their weekly operational budget, could they not have at least considered putting long-term contracts out to tender that will last until the end of the current franchise for rail replacement coach services on the major lines they operate that do not have other rail companies offering services upon?
 

js1000

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Sunday cancellations this week really do read like a horror show.

Large swathes of the network in the North West will not even have a single Sunday train service or at the very least a limited stopping service.

Persisting with the 'engineering work' is disingenuous to say the least. At the same time this is the time of the year where train companies should be making decent revenue on weekend services with Christmas shoppers.
 

py_megapixel

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I can't find a thread about this and though one might be worthwhile.

This is really getting rather shambolic. There was an entire period of several months running many lines at a reduced frequency on Saturdays because of crew shortages caused by strikes.

And now, once again, there are widespread cancellations across the North due to Northern not having enough train crew. Any ideas of the causes for this, or how long this is likely to continue?
 

Llama

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It's going to get quite a lot worse in the next few weeks until the new year.
 

Gems

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Mostly the west side. Wait until Christmas Eve, you'll see something develop that will blow you away in some areas. Don't plan a last minute shop.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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This will be the first year in the last nine years that we shall not be making our annual December visit to York for attending the special minster services there. I am 74, my good lady wife is 78 and we both have 3-year Senior Citizen Railcards, so the current TPE service provision is not one that we can rely upon.
 

Puffing Devil

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Sunday cancellations this week really do read like a horror show.

Large swathes of the network in the North West will not even have a single Sunday train service or at the very least a limited stopping service.

Persisting with the 'engineering work' is disingenuous to say the least. At the same time this is the time of the year where train companies should be making decent revenue on weekend services with Christmas shoppers.

Services pulled from Stockport-Crewe and replaced with a bus. Where's the logic in that? The line is open as other services are running over it.

They managed to pull my local train last Sunday evening which meant a panic drive to Crewe so I didn't miss my train to London.
 

Bovverboy

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I see there is the usual gamut of cancellations tomorrow, Sunday 15/12/19.
Southport - Blackburn (via Copy Pit): Train service reduced to one every 4/5 hours between Southport and Todmorden. Section from there to Blackburn not operating due to engineering works, replaced by bus running Todmorden - Burnley Manchester Road, extended to Burnley Central to connect with the Colne - Blackpool South service. Passengers travelling between Southport and Manchester advised to go via Liverpool!
Liverpool - Blackpool North: Replaced by bus between Huyton and Wigan North Western only, rest of service cancelled. Passengers Liverpool to Preston/Blackpool advised to go via Manchester Oxford Road!
(This is the first time I have seen a change to the Liverpool - Blackpool service, but I haven't been taking much notice recently).
Wigan North Western - Stalybridge: Replaced by bus Wigan - Bolton and Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge, cancelled Bolton - Manchester Victoria, as per the recent norm.
Manchester Victoria - Clitheroe: Replaced by bus Salford Crescent - Clitheroe, but recommended interchange point Bolton. Cancelled Manchester Victoria - Bolton.
York - Blackpool North: replaced by bus Hebden Bridge - Preston, cancelled Preston - Blackpool North. (Engineering work).
Lancaster - Morecambe: As of tomorrow the Sunday Leeds - Lancaster journeys are extended to Morecambe/Heysham Port, with Lancaster - Morecambe shorts filling in between. Tomorrow the shorts are replaced by bus, but the Leeds trains are planned to continue to Morecambe/Heysham Port.
Manchester Piccadilly - Hadfield: Reduced to hourly, ex-half hourly.
Manchester Piccadilly - Crewe: Cancelled Piccadilly - Stockport, replaced by bus Stockport - Crewe.
Blackpool North - Hellifield: Cancelled Blackpool North - Preston, replaced by bus Preston - Hellifield.
 
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AMD

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Wait until Christmas Eve, you'll see something develop that will blow you away in some areas.
If you think the 24th will be bad don't try and go anywhere on the 31st, there's a lot of banked days been put in for then, which the company cannot refuse.....
 

Jamesrob637

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If you think the 24th will be bad don't try and go anywhere on the 31st, there's a lot of banked days been put in for then, which the company cannot refuse.....

Not planning on using trains now until 2020!
 

Llama

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Probably for the best. Nearly 300 full cancellations according to Northern Fail yesterday (Saturday), we are well and truly into the realms of last May now and the worst is yet to come.
 

Bovverboy

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I see the rot's already started (today) with a Liverpool - Airport semi-fast diagram scheduled to be grounded until at least 1215, and a couple of other cancellations.
 

Killingworth

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Despite no notifications by yesterday evening the first Hope Valley service is cancelled so to be safe we sholud assume it's best to avoid trains all day today.

In my union days I argued that a work to rule and ban on overtime could be as effective as a strike to achieve our aims without costing us as much as an outright strike. Our employer had some consideration for customers and the one time we tried it gave enough concessions after 3 months for us to resume normal working.

It seems similar consideration does not apply in the railway context. They're happy for people to be left stranded, their plans wrecked. It's not as if the issue was new. Its been festering for years.

Standing when trains do run, arriving late more often than not*, it's no surprise the vast majority of visitors to the Peak District come by car, and local residents mostly ignore the trains.

It doesn't have to be this way.

*Pacer yesterday morning on the 9.14 out of Sheffield was 10 minutes late and rammed full. 10.14 and 11.14 were cancelled!
 

Puffing Devil

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The second week on the bounce that the (lack of) action has been moved to Crewe-Stockport. No idea why this service is now suffering. It's completely unacceptable that the situation has not been resolved. Will we see changes with the new government?

I'm wondering why new drivers have not been recruited on a contract with 7 day working?
 

agbrs_Jack

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Cancelled on my local line today so far:
09:30 Congleton - Stoke
10:44 Congleton - Manc
15:25 Congleton - Stoke
16:44 Congleton - Manc

That’a 33% of trains cancelled at Congleton today!
Abysmal.
 

Jamesrob637

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Cancelled on my local line today so far:
09:30 Congleton - Stoke
10:44 Congleton - Manc
15:25 Congleton - Stoke
16:44 Congleton - Manc

That’a 33% of trains cancelled at Congleton today!
Abysmal.

The two going to Manchester are the only services at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme for several hours! Pathetic. Nobody uses the train on Sundays from these two anymore. It's just about ok Monday to Saturday with the odd cancellation as at least there are 4 trains per hour then, but Sunday services have gone to the dogs in Manchester.
 

Matt_pool

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Several cancellations on Liverpool - Man Oxford Rd services today, obviously with no bus replacements.

I expect there to be a few more last minute cancellations later this evening that Northern will surprise on us!
 
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