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Beggars at railway stations

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Clayton

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Another time, I was at Waterloo, as my train was not till the following morning, I kipped in a corner of the Train Station, some guy was hanging about near me, being paranoid as I am, I tried to shake him off before I settled down, as I was keeping a low profile, I had went AWOL from my Childrens Home when I was 17, I had won enough on a Horse Race to disappear for 3 days, I would end up in Redruth.

In the end, it turned out the guy at Waterloo wanted someone to talk to, ended up just sitting talking to him most of the night because that was round about the time I was doing all that mad s**t I described before
Good to have input from someone who knows what they are talking about
 
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lord rathmore

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You can barely get in or out of Innsbruck Station for beggars, especially in the evening when they follow you on to the platform! Quite intimidating with our kids with us. Brussels used to be as bad, less so recently.
 

londonbridge

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My take on beggars actually on the train is, ask them if they have a ticket.

If yes, argue that they've spent money that could have been put towards getting in the shelter, or food, etc.

If no, argue they're risking a penalty fare and/or prosecution which again will cost them a lot more money that they could have put towards getting in the shelter, or food, etc.
 

mmh

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As has been said before, its best to provide a cup of coffee, or a sandwich instead of giving money.

It's rather assuming that people want or like what you do though. Fifth coffee of the day someone didn't want, well meaning but that's a tenner plus which might have gone towards something they wanted or needed. Likewise sandwiches, what if they're gluten intolerant, or have an allergy to something in what you bought them?

It's being nice while unfortunately belittling too.

This is what I try to do. This is actually a good thing for the genuine homeless, as even if you did give money, they are not able to use that money effectively (I am sure most "establishments" would try to refuse entry to a genuine homeless person).

That seems a bit of a strange and sweeping statement. Which establishments do you mean that need "quoting"?
 

mmh

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They tend to loiter around outside the Pub/area outside the newer entrance in the evenings. This is why I tend to exit via the old concourse (and out through the door by the Railair lounge) in the evening/at night to avoid being harassed by the same old faces.

However, surely BTP have some jurisdiction in this area directly outside the station, to tell them to clear off?

Clear off to where though? The town centre? Unless someone's caught committing an offence worth an arrest there's really no point the BTP doing much I'm afraid. They're hardly over resourced.

The police prefer to know where people congregate than have them randomly dispersed, too.
 

mmh

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A beggar came down the circle line train I was on on Wednesday afternoon. Very politely regaling us all with some cock and bull story about needing £4.40 to get a bed for the night. He was filthy and dressed in dirty clothes. But he didn't smell at all and his designer stubble was well groomed.
Someone gave him some money "Thank you sir, you're an angel" and then he dashed out of the train quick smart at the next stop.
Pretty sure he was a professional beggar.

May or may not have been. But think about it, if you've no permanent washing facilities it's going to be an awful lot easier in London to wash yourself than your clothes. Hardly rare to see people washing themselves in railway station toilets.
 

trebor79

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Nah, genuine dirty people have that peculiar smell that makes you gag.
He looked dirty (face, hands and clothes), but didn't smell at all. I think he'd made himself up.
 

mmh

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Nah, genuine dirty people have that peculiar smell that makes you gag.
He looked dirty (face, hands and clothes), but didn't smell at all. I think he'd made himself up.

Perhaps because like most people he doesn't like to smell?
 

greyman42

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My take on beggars actually on the train is, ask them if they have a ticket.

If yes, argue that they've spent money that could have been put towards getting in the shelter, or food, etc.

If no, argue they're risking a penalty fare and/or prosecution which again will cost them a lot more money that they could have put towards getting in the shelter, or food, etc.
A fine is pointless if they have no money in the first place.
 

marko2

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Enough prosecutions for ticketless travel or begging can escalate to a Criminal Behaviour Order and a ban fro the railway network. Breaching that ban results in significant prison time.
The BTP should absolutely be doing this to persistent offenders.
 

Clayton

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Enough prosecutions for ticketless travel or begging can escalate to a Criminal Behaviour Order and a ban fro the railway network. Breaching that ban results in significant prison time.
The BTP should absolutely be doing this to persistent offenders.
You’re all heart! There are some very priggish people on this site
 

fowler9

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Enough prosecutions for ticketless travel or begging can escalate to a Criminal Behaviour Order and a ban fro the railway network. Breaching that ban results in significant prison time.
The BTP should absolutely be doing this to persistent offenders.
Significant prison time may put you off. I am completely unconvinced it would work with someone living in the streets.
 

Owl

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Last time I went there is was consulting the metro map when some youths tried to "help" me buy tickets etc. I politely declined but made the mistake of revealing my destination. They then pinned out the route I'd suggest worked out for myself before demanding 5 Euros "for the information". They got quite shirty when I refused and followed me for a way.
There were staff about who could see I was being harassed and did precisely nothing to help. When they got aggressive I just bolted to the ticket barrier to make my escape.

At Vauxhall station in London which has become a place for beggars, buskers, homeless, etc due to massive regeneration construction, nightclubs, opportunities, etc, and subsequently massive human impact to the extent the old station was revamped to cater for the influx, I recently witnessed an example of aggressive begging unheard of previously.
A mother was taking money from the station cash machine and a man came up behind her to enquire if she was alright in a wheedling voice. She turned round and smiled saying yes, being a nice trusting accommodating person occupied with her young children. She started walking off with her purse and he accompanied her chatting away, smiling, wheedling and very close to her.
My alarm bells rang and I ran to the cashier saying stop him, he's trying to take her money. She immediately looked at the cctv and called security. Another person ran up and shouted yes, stop him, it's happening in Brixton too.
I was in Brixton a while ago and harassed at the cash machine by a young man who punched me in the back after demanding money and because I turned away saying no.

Never seen such levels of disfunctional and immoral behaviour before. Has it all been hidden? Is it the new gang culture emerging?
 

Owl

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Nah, genuine dirty people have that peculiar smell that makes you gag.
He looked dirty (face, hands and clothes), but didn't smell at all. I think he'd made himself up.
I know of people like that who have philosophies about life and themselves. They're not homeless.
A "genuinely dirty person" with no "gagging smell" and the mind of a pure angel said to me the other day washing and sanitising can cause problems with the immune system. What do you say to that?
 

Meerkat

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Re an earlier suggestion that more posters should be put up discouraging giving money to beggars and encouraging donations to homeless charities instead.
That was done at my local station and the bleeding hearts complained.
Similar to this in Gloucester.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...ic-not-to-give-cash-to-homeless-a3740276.html

Fran Boait, Labour prospective parliamentary candidate for Gloucester, wrote on Twitter on Friday: "This is an awful advert.


"Streetlink is really important, but making people suspicious of homeless people is horrible. This framing is all wrong and undermines the care we need for people sleeping rough."
 

trebor79

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I know of people like that who have philosophies about life and themselves. They're not homeless.
A "genuinely dirty person" with no "gagging smell" and the mind of a pure angel said to me the other day washing and sanitising can cause problems with the immune system. What do you say to that?
Well, we're very off topic, but it sounds like he needs a tinfoil hat.
 

bnm

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I had a long period of chaotic life from 1999-2006. No secure accommodation, frequent rough sleeping, petty crime, begging.

The trigger was largely self inflicted. I got into debt. I fell out with family. However, underlying that was, at that time, undiagnosed mental health issues.

I can assure those heartless priggish souls posting here that this period of my life was no picnic. Yes I bunked trains, yes I shoplifted, yes I often asked for money rather than food and a hot drink. Why? So I could scrape enough together each day to get a bed in the ****tiest cheapest B&B that I could find.

The vast majority of the homeless out there are not making a lifestyle choice. Think just a little before you turn your nose up and look the other way. Don't make assumptions about what someone begging needs the money for. Have a little compassion.

By all means donate to charities instead of giving directly, but don't moralise against beggars and the homeless. Each one is a person, each one has a back story, each one deserves compassion.

Oh, and for the record, I found prison infinitely more acceptable than rough sleeping. Having no fixed address means prison is far more likely, even for the pettiest of offences. Bear in mind though that the attitude of 'lock em up' is a far bigger cost to society than actually addressing homelessness. And by addressing, I don't mean paying lip service to charities. It's proper funding nationally and locally that best addresses homelessness.

I came out of prison for the final time (all short sentences - no violence or drugs) in January 2006. The Prison and Probation Services had secured hostel accommodation for me. That saved my life. At that hostel I was able to address my problems, rebuild bridges with my family, get the diagnoses and help for the mental health issues, access further education, move forward. Eventually into my own place. I've not looked back. Others after me have not been so fortunate. Funding for the kind of projects I was able to access, such as the hostel, has been drastically cut in the last ten years. The place that got me back on my feet has closed down. In some ways I was fortunate to have had my problems during a Labour administration and before the financial crash. Had my life spiralled out of control after 2010 it's likely I wouldn't be here today to type this.
 

hooverboy

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I had a long period of chaotic life from 1999-2006. No secure accommodation, frequent rough sleeping, petty crime, begging.

The trigger was largely self inflicted. I got into debt. I fell out with family. However, underlying that was, at that time, undiagnosed mental health issues.

I can assure those heartless priggish souls posting here that this period of my life was no picnic. Yes I bunked trains, yes I shoplifted, yes I often asked for money rather than food and a hot drink. Why? So I could scrape enough together each day to get a bed in the ****tiest cheapest B&B that I could find.

The vast majority of the homeless out there are not making a lifestyle choice. Think just a little before you turn your nose up and look the other way. Don't make assumptions about what someone begging needs the money for. Have a little compassion.

By all means donate to charities instead of giving directly, but don't moralise against beggars and the homeless. Each one is a person, each one has a back story, each one deserves compassion.

Oh, and for the record, I found prison infinitely more acceptable than rough sleeping. Having no fixed address means prison is far more likely, even for the pettiest of offences. Bear in mind though that the attitude of 'lock em up' is a far bigger cost to society than actually addressing homelessness. And by addressing, I don't mean paying lip service to charities. It's proper funding nationally and locally that best addresses homelessness.

I came out of prison for the final time (all short sentences - no violence or drugs) in January 2006. The Prison and Probation Services had secured hostel accommodation for me. That saved my life. At that hostel I was able to address my problems, rebuild bridges with my family, get the diagnoses and help for the mental health issues, access further education, move forward. Eventually into my own place. I've not looked back. Others after me have not been so fortunate. Funding for the kind of projects I was able to access, such as the hostel, has been drastically cut in the last ten years. The place that got me back on my feet has closed down. In some ways I was fortunate to have had my problems during a Labour administration and before the financial crash. Had my life spiralled out of control after 2010 it's likely I wouldn't be here today to type this.

I do symapathise with your predicament.
certainly with mental health issues/family circumstances this can be the straw that breaks the camels back,and a lot of folks spiral into alcoholism/drug use as an escape route.

the problem is really distinguishing the real mental health cases(ie schizophrenia etc) which are totally a medical imbalance, from the self-inflicted medical imbalances.
The latter of which in society does not receive much in the way of support, because it is..self inflicted.

as for hostels, if you are trying to get clean, then these aren't always the best places to do it. you're in the same boat with a lot of people on their uppers, and it's quite easy to get dragged back down with them if they aren't on the same level
 

Clayton

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I do symapathise with your predicament.
certainly with mental health issues/family circumstances this can be the straw that breaks the camels back,and a lot of folks spiral into alcoholism/drug use as an escape route.

the problem is really distinguishing the real mental health cases(ie schizophrenia etc) which are totally a medical imbalance, from the self-inflicted medical imbalances.
The latter of which in society does not receive much in the way of support, because it is..self inflicted.

as for hostels, if you are trying to get clean, then these aren't always the best places to do it. you're in the same boat with a lot of people on their uppers, and it's quite easy to get dragged back down with them if they aren't on the same level
As the previous poster said, there are a lot of priggish people on here. Saying that drug issues are ‘self inflicted’ is disingenuous as they are generally a consequence of problems in earlier life or untreated mental conditions
 

hooverboy

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As the previous poster said, there are a lot of priggish people on here. Saying that drug issues are ‘self inflicted’ is disingenuous as they are generally a consequence of problems in earlier life or untreated mental conditions
I do hope I didn't come across that way.

I did say I can sympathise in a lot of situations.

It doesn't take much to trigger it in some instances.
maybe the happy bloke who had a couple of pints in the pub after work has just found his mrs cheating etc and divorced.
i take the couple of pints as an example..but the reasons for the divorce...well..

1)the two pints a night are adding up and the guy is no longer the ripped adonis she married
2)married to work, not getting enough attention,and someone else has made her feel 16 again
3)just gone stale,midlife crisis mode and trying bits of life she feels she missed out on

all of a sudden he's out of the house, and the couple of pints a night turns into something a bit more/ stronger
then it gets earlier and earlier kick off.

then he's out of a job because the boss has picked up he's not performing as he should.

etc etc.....easy situation to find onesself in.

excessive debts is another trigger(for whatever reason)
but then there's stuff like gambling,which most people would not have any sympathy for
 
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Bertie the bus

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Liverpool Lime St has more than its fair share of beggars. They are so prevalent that when I was there last week one beggar asked another beggar for some spare change. Too many but none of them seem to be in any way aggressive and they take no for an answer.
 

Robertj21a

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I had a long period of chaotic life from 1999-2006. No secure accommodation, frequent rough sleeping, petty crime, begging.

The trigger was largely self inflicted. I got into debt. I fell out with family. However, underlying that was, at that time, undiagnosed mental health issues.

I can assure those heartless priggish souls posting here that this period of my life was no picnic. Yes I bunked trains, yes I shoplifted, yes I often asked for money rather than food and a hot drink. Why? So I could scrape enough together each day to get a bed in the ****tiest cheapest B&B that I could find.

The vast majority of the homeless out there are not making a lifestyle choice. Think just a little before you turn your nose up and look the other way. Don't make assumptions about what someone begging needs the money for. Have a little compassion.

By all means donate to charities instead of giving directly, but don't moralise against beggars and the homeless. Each one is a person, each one has a back story, each one deserves compassion.

Oh, and for the record, I found prison infinitely more acceptable than rough sleeping. Having no fixed address means prison is far more likely, even for the pettiest of offences. Bear in mind though that the attitude of 'lock em up' is a far bigger cost to society than actually addressing homelessness. And by addressing, I don't mean paying lip service to charities. It's proper funding nationally and locally that best addresses homelessness.

I came out of prison for the final time (all short sentences - no violence or drugs) in January 2006. The Prison and Probation Services had secured hostel accommodation for me. That saved my life. At that hostel I was able to address my problems, rebuild bridges with my family, get the diagnoses and help for the mental health issues, access further education, move forward. Eventually into my own place. I've not looked back. Others after me have not been so fortunate. Funding for the kind of projects I was able to access, such as the hostel, has been drastically cut in the last ten years. The place that got me back on my feet has closed down. In some ways I was fortunate to have had my problems during a Labour administration and before the financial crash. Had my life spiralled out of control after 2010 it's likely I wouldn't be here today to type this.

Well said, thank you for that.
 

bnm

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as for hostels, if you are trying to get clean, then these aren't always the best places to do it. you're in the same boat with a lot of people on their uppers, and it's quite easy to get dragged back down with them if they aren't on the same level

Not all hostels are flop houses for those with drink or drug problems. The place I went to in January 2006 was 'dry'. You had to be clean and sober for 30 days prior to moving in. Residents had to agree to random testing and anyone failing such tests had to leave immediately. I managed to avoid even a puff of cannabis in prison and any hooch, despite it being relatively easy to obtain. I shared cells with people who smoked heroin and crack. That's when you face a dilemma. If you ask to move to another cell you are effectively grassing on your cell mate. A big no no. Stay put and you might test positive from passive use. I was fortunate with the last short sentence I received to be able to go onto a 'smoke free' wing. Far less likely to encounter drugs amongst prisoners who don't even smoke tobacco.
 

Metal_gee_man

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Re an earlier suggestion that more posters should be put up discouraging giving money to beggars and encouraging donations to homeless charities instead.
That was done at my local station and the bleeding hearts complained.
Similar to this in Gloucester.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...ic-not-to-give-cash-to-homeless-a3740276.html
Canterbury City Council have actively added these signs all over Canterbury High St, the bleeding heart have said nothing.
The homeless still haven't got the message but it's helped the aggressive begging. Screenshot_20191207_223634_com.google.android.apps.maps.jpg
 

Metal_gee_man

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Tell us what you mean by ‘bleeding hearts’. Presumably you are comfortably housed
I was quoting the message I replied to. I have no official idea of what a bleeding heart looks like... A do gooder, a middle class vegan with the best intentions... I generally don't know.

I was generally weighing in that other towns/cities have the done this and continue to push the message.
It's a message I agree with that's all
 

fowler9

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And then made a post that, to be frank, did not display much sympathy or understanding of the kinds of issues that lead people to homelessness. :rolleyes:
There you have it. I have a mate who thinks all homeless people are on Heroin, it's their own fault and he would happily have them shot. In all other aspects my mate is a lovely generous guy.
 
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