Prosecution Advice Please

Hi all. Sorry if this post is long. Trying to add anything I think could be relevant.

I’m looking for any info please on what I could expect from the following:

Got a call last night from a GWR inspector asking me to confirm my name and address as they’d stopped my kid (19) and friend (18) trying to go through barriers with child tickets. It was for a 45 min journey that costs around £30-£35 for an adult return.

When stopped they lied about their ages at first, before realising it wasn’t happening, then they came clean. I was then called to verify my name and address.

Kid has brought home a ticket saying ‘you have been reported for prosecution’, etc. and that the case is being reviewed then they’ll get a letter.

I’m fully aware they are idiots for attempting this and have told them so.

I won’t be bailing them out, but I will help them manage the situation. I’m just pretty stressed and wondering if anyone has any kind of experience with something like this please and could tell me what kind of costs they may be expected to pay, or if it could even go to court, so I can prepare them and myself.

Also the friend has given my address to avoid telling their parents. I don’t want two fines to my house. Will I be able to correct this?

They are usually no problem and have never been in trouble before. Mine works full time and the friend works part time and is in college. It was a stupid mistake and they were rightly scared and horrified by the experience so hopefully they don’t even think about trying anything similar in future!

Thanks for reading. Any advice on this situation would be appreciated!

Welcome to the forum.

As I understand it, the usual process is
- incident happens: details are taken (This is what has just happened)
- Railway (or possibly their agent - a lot of companies use Transport Investigations Limited, often referred to as TIL) write and ask for any further explanation or information
- at this point, it would probably be sensible to explain the real address of your kid's friend. If the facts stated are true, confirm this and offer to settle out of court. If anything needs correcting, do it now.
- railway or TIL then respond with what they intend to do. If your kid is lucky, it will be an offer to settle out of court for the train fare and costs, so a total of maybe £100 - £200 each. If they're not lucky, or TIL behave as normal, then your kid will be advised that the case may be taken forward for prosecution.
- if offered a chance to settle, take it. If not offered, write to apologize and offer to settle out of court.
- there may be a further round of correspondence. If so, at every opportunity offer to settle out of court.
- if the matter does go to court, then it may still be possible to settle - try to find the prosecutor in person and see if they will agree.
- if it does go to court, plead guilty as soon as possible to minimise the fine. The hit on your kid's pocket will be the fare (as above) costs (greater than above), court costs (extra) and a fine (extra) so a few hundred pounds in all. There may also be a criminal record, which would be nice not to have, but is unlikely to block your kid from many lines of work (I know of nurses and teachers with single convictions for fare dodging).

I have made a couple of assumptions here:

- That there's no doubt that your kid is guilty. If they are innocent, they should be less willing to go along with the system
- that they are willing to let you speak for them. At 19, they are legally an adult so if they want you to act on their behalf, get them to state this in writing, which you can send to the railway.

Not much to add to Fawkes Cat's post, just a couple of observations:

- If you don't want the friend's correspondence at your address you can simply return it "Not know at this address" and drop it back in the postbox. As your son should be getting an identical letter, I would be tempted to pass on the first with a warning that any subsequent post will simply be returned.

- You can write any replies for your son, though it's better if the responses come in his name, even if drafted by you.

Once you get the first letter, come back to this thread for further advice - though it's likely to be to make a contrite apology and offer to settle.

As both the culprits are adults, you are right to help them resolve it themselves.
They must respond to the letters themselves (plenty of good advice on here - no doubt you will help) and start saving!

Puffing Devil said:

- If you don't want the friend's correspondence at your address you can simply return it "Not know at this address" and drop it back in the postbox. As your son should be getting an identical letter, I would be tempted to pass on the first with a warning that any subsequent post will simply be returned.

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Provided son is prepared to pass on the letters, I would advise against returning post, tempting though it is.
Giving a false address is an offence, and returning the post potentially drops friend in the ****.
Provided friend corrects the address in their first reply, even if only to "c/o Kid...." I would guess that TIL/GW might not pursue the address issue.
Unless there is a very good reason, friend needs to own up to his parents.

It could be several months before hearing from the company (or their agent). If your son and his friend think it might be useful, they could write a detailed account of what the inspector and they said while it is fresh in their minds.

They might like to look through threads on here to get an idea of how things work, though it may be hard to make predictions based on other cases.

Did they sign statements?

ApproxAmount said:

Got a call last night from a GWR inspector asking me to confirm my name and address

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ApproxAmount said:

the friend has given my address

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Hopefully this won't be a significant issue, but did the inspector phone you under the impression that the friend lived with you? Just in case there's a problem about this, it may be good to get the facts straight now as to what was said.

As @30907 alluded to, it's a criminal offence for someone to give the wrong address after not paying their (full) fare - see section 5(3)(c):
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/52-53/57/section/5

Clearly this is a different situation from where someone gives an address they have no connection with.

But how the friend handles this (and perhaps how you handle it) should take into account that they gave the wrong address after coming clean about the wrong age.

30907 said:

As both the culprits are adults, you are right to help them resolve it themselves.
They must respond to the letters themselves (plenty of good advice on here - no doubt you will help) and start saving!



Provided son is prepared to pass on the letters, I would advise against returning post, tempting though it is.
Giving a false address is an offence, and returning the post potentially drops friend in the ****.
Provided friend corrects the address in their first reply, even if only to "c/o Kid...." I would guess that TIL/GW might not pursue the address issue.
Unless there is a very good reason, friend needs to own up to his parents.

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Keeping the correspondence at my address is not something I would want. There is no harm in passing on the first letter; the "friend" can then give a new address for future correspondence - no harm or foul in that. He has an opportunity to correct his mistake - fail to do that and pay the price.

Puffing Devil said:

you can simply return it "Not know at this address"

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Would "Not known at this address" be accurate enough, about someone who is known to people at that address?

As 30907 says, returning the letters may cause bigger problems for the friend - pass all the letters on i.e. make sure the friend remains reachable c/o your address. But insist that the friend provides them with a better address for future correspondence.

In general, GWR treats prosecution as a last resort after other methods of settling the matter fail, as you can read here.

some bloke said:

Would "Not known at this address" be accurate enough, about someone who is known to people at that address?

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It's the standard reponse for unwanted mail. https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5156/~/ive-received-someone-elses-mail

Puffing Devil said:

It's the standard reponse for unwanted mail. https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5156/~/ive-received-someone-elses-mail

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It isn't clear to me that they envisage that response to this situation. Even if they did, the question isn't what would satisfy the Royal Mail, but whether it's accurate enough not to cause additional suspicion or confusion at the train company.

some bloke said:

It isn't clear to me that they envisage that response to this situation. Even if they did, the question isn't what would satisfy the Royal Mail, but whether it's accurate enough not to cause additional suspicion or confusion at the train company.

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This is a binary situation - if the "friend" doesn't take the warning to fix the postal address issue, the letters get bounced back by the normal means. It's then down to the TOC to locate and deal with said friend. The OP doesn't want the hassle of the additional letters landing at their door.

The OP owes the friend nothing - the friend gave their address as a false address. One attempt to correct it is enough, in my opinion.

Puffing Devil said:

The OP owes the friend nothing - the friend gave their address as a false address.

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The question is about the wording rather than the procedure.

If ApproxAmount decides at any stage to return mail, "Not living at this address" or "Not at this address" would be accurate. "Not known" might look odd, especially if - as is not yet clear - the inspector thought they'd confirmed with ApproxAmount that the friend did live there. If they both said they lived there, it might be surprising if the inspector just asked about one.

some bloke said:

did the inspector phone you under the impression that the friend lived with you?

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Hopefully, in light of possible complications, no-one will be returning mail anyway.

The OP doesn't want the hassle of the additional letters landing at their door.

The OP owes the friend nothing - the friend gave their address as a false address.

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The OP's son is an adult, so is perfectly able to deal with the hassle. And my impression is that the OP is actually wanting to be supportive not to avoid hassle or to insist on his/her rights.

I can't believe we're discussing the wording on returned mail. The OP does not want the friend's mail

ApproxAmount said:

Also the friend has given my address to avoid telling their parents. I don’t want two fines to my house. Will I be able to correct this?

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The friend can do this immediately, or they can do it when responding to the first letter.

As the friend does not live at the address, the homeowner is entitled to return it not know. Royal Mail are not going to conduct an investigation into the veracity of the wording, it will be returned to sender. End of.

Puffing Devil said:

Royal Mail are not going to conduct an investigation into the veracity of the wording

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I'm not talking about Royal Mail, but the train company, and a case that might end up with questions in court.

some bloke said:

the question isn't what would satisfy the Royal Mail, but whether it's accurate enough not to cause additional suspicion or confusion at the train company.

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The company already know the two lied, so it is best to avoid doing things that may look suspect or confusing.

This may be worth bearing in mind on how to deal with the address issue: Although it may be tempting to think it's the friend's problem, it may not be that simple. First, maybe the inspector got an impression that ApproxAmount confirmed the friend lived there. Second, if the friend's giving that address is looked on with suspicion for any reason, it might reflect on the son as well - especially if he was standing next to the friend while they gave that address.

I'm not saying it's necessarily going to cause a problem to correct the address, and I'm not suggesting a continued pretence - but if you are keen to play it safe, it may be worth a little time thinking how to handle it.

GWR deal their own prosecutions/Unpaid Fares/Penalty Fares in house.

As has already been established an MG11 was obviously submitted, GWR are quite hot on their Inspectors submitting their reports promptly (within 7 days) I'd hazard a guess that you'll receive a letter within 10 days/2 Weeks.

Generally you'll be offered a way to settle the matter without it going to court unless there is previous or aggravating circumstances or massive fraud (by the sounds of it that's not applicable in this case!)

Hope this helps

GWR is one of the TOCs that has been known to settle out of court so there is hope. In fact, GWR have been known to offer a settlement in the first letter they send so let us hope this is the case here - and if so, if it is paid promptly it will bring a close to the matter (on both counts).