Manual/ Automatic PCV licence

Geordie driver · 5 Dec 2019

Watching the local coaches picking up the kids in my village this morning, it is clear most of the have a manual gearbox. I learned in a manual Bristol Lodekka as my company still had a number of manual buses, mostly stottie boxes and some coaches used on rail replacement by local service drivers. Pre dereg they wouldn't employ anyone with an automatic licence. This went out the window post dereg as they were short of drivers, it meant those of us with full licences would have a nice new oympian taken off us and given a dreaded LH, caused no end of bad feeling.

According to a mate of mine who had an automatic licence they no longer differentiate and he can now drive a manual PCV, seems a bit unlikely to me? I don't imagine many people take their test in a manual vehicle now as most service buses appear to be full auto and that is what the big companies want.

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Bletchleyite · 5 Dec 2019

I have read that the Government were considering abolishing the differential between manual and automatic car licenses on the basis that manuals will be dying out soon anyway with everything being hybrid or electric, and on the basis that someone who doesn't know how to drive a manual is unlikely to bother trying to the point that it causes an issue.

I wonder if that will also apply to PCV?

Temple Meads · 5 Dec 2019

If you have a manual car license then your automatic PSV license can now be upgraded without taking an additional test.

Geordie driver · 5 Dec 2019

Temple Meads said:
If you have a manual car license then your automatic PSV license can now be upgraded without taking an additional test.

Thank you! I have been winding him up for years for his " twiddly button" PCV licence, means I no longer can.

richw · 5 Dec 2019

I took my PSV test In an automatic Volvo B7 ALX400, as a manual car licence holder I was automatically granted Manual psv entitlement. Haven’t driven a Manual bus but have a few semi auto preserved Bristol VRs
Same rules applies to hgv entitlements.

InspectorBloke · 5 Dec 2019

It's true, if you have a manual car licence, you can drive both manual and automatic buses if you pass your test on an automatic bus.

PG · 5 Dec 2019

Does anyone know when this change came into effect?

90019 · 6 Dec 2019

I think it was early 2014 it changed.

PG · 6 Dec 2019

Ah ok thanks for that, a wee while ago then!

Geordie driver · 6 Dec 2019

All that double declutching and my knackered left knee was for nothing!

carlberry · 6 Dec 2019

Geordie driver said:
All that double declutching and my knackered left knee was for nothing!

I would suggest anybody with an auto only license that's been upgraded to all types shouldn't be let near a vehicle that needs double declutching so you've still got useful skills out of it!

Geordie driver · 6 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
I would suggest anybody with an auto only license that's been upgraded to all types shouldn't be let near a vehicle that needs double declutching so you've still got useful skills out of it!

Indeed, but skills I will hopefully never need to use!

richw · 6 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
I would suggest anybody with an auto only license that's been upgraded to all types shouldn't be let near a vehicle that needs double declutching so you've still got useful skills out of it!

I have no idea what double declutching is but have the licence to drive such. Hgvs are more interesting with all their ratios. The training schools around here all have full auto trucks. The candidates can then jump in a complicated manual in theory with no extra training

robk23oxf · 6 Dec 2019

I passed my PCV test before the rules changed and I have recently sent off to have the Code 78 restriction (Automatic only) removed. Drivers who have passed their test since the rules changed seem to have manual PCV entitlement straight away.

richw · 6 Dec 2019

robk23oxf said:
I passed my PCV test before the rules changed and I have recently sent off to have the Code 78 restriction (Automatic only) removed. Drivers who have passed their test since the rules changed seem to have manual PCV entitlement straight away.

Mine was automatically there, passed sept 2018

PG · 6 Dec 2019

Would I be correct in thinking that if an automatic Car licence holder passed a manual PCV or LGV test that their Car licence would then cover manual cars too?

Geordie driver · 7 Dec 2019

richw said:
I have no idea what double declutching is but have the licence to drive such. Hgvs are more interesting with all their ratios. The training schools around here all have full auto trucks. The candidates can then jump in a complicated manual in theory with no extra training

Double declutching, every time you change gear you have to lift off the clutch in neutral between gears, IIRC it's because the gear boxes have no synchromesh.

Mike99 · 7 Dec 2019

Like some others on here I passed my PSV test on a pre-select (using the operating pedal) RT type bus with London Transport in the mid 70's licenses were issued as a full licence, just internal type testing for Routemasters which as many know didn't have a clutch or operating pedal, but could be driven in manual or automatic as was the drivers wish.

Aictos · 7 Dec 2019

You guys might know but a few years ago less then a decade to be precise I had to use a few coaches on the rail replacement services and to change gear they simply pressed a button on the dashboard depending on what they wanted (automatic gearbox but with a button D for Drive etc) Are any of those coaches still about or do they use a small automatic gearbox lever like in the buses?

Edit: Thanks for the advice above for manual car drivers who pass in a auto bus to drive a manual bus as never knew that.

philthetube · 7 Dec 2019

Geordie driver said:
All that double declutching and my knackered left knee was for nothing!

Think those with no experience of crash boxes might have even more fun with a snatch change first to second uphill.

Geordie driver · 7 Dec 2019

philthetube said:
Think those with no experience of crash boxes might have even more fun with a snatch change first to second uphill.

Indeed, my test involved just that. Then reversing round a bend, no more the 4 inches away from the kerb, no less than 2, stopped round the bend then tester said, no keep going, do another 50 yards.. Small cup of water on the dash and told not to spill it. Going on service with full or semi autos was a piece of cake after that.

jp4712 · 9 Dec 2019

philthetube said:
Think those with no experience of crash boxes might have even more fun with a snatch change first to second uphill.

Snatch change! I was driving Stockport Corporation 91 (a Leyland PD3) last year, synchro on 3rd and 4th gears but not first or second. On the first shuttle service run I did a lovely 1-2 snatch change, very pleased with myself; 40 minutes later on the second run, same place, same incline, tried it again, nope! Came to a halt in a chorus of grinding gears. Oh well...

Geordie driver · 10 Dec 2019

jp4712 said:
Snatch change! I was driving Stockport Corporation 91 (a Leyland PD3) last year, synchro on 3rd and 4th gears but not first or second. On the first shuttle service run I did a lovely 1-2 snatch change, very pleased with myself; 40 minutes later on the second run, same place, same incline, tried it again, nope! Came to a halt in a chorus of grinding gears. Oh well...

The shame of it! Was there anyone else on the bus and did they take the Mickey?

carlberry · 10 Dec 2019

Geordie driver said:
The shame of it! Was there anyone else on the bus and did they take the Mickey?

If it was a running day I suspect there will be the usual collection of 'experts' (most of who haven't been near a loaded bus) discussing how it should have been done.

harz99 · 10 Dec 2019

Mike99 said:
Like some others on here I passed my PSV test on a pre-select (using the operating pedal) RT type bus with London Transport in the mid 70's licenses were issued as a full licence, just internal type testing for Routemasters which as many know didn't have a clutch or operating pedal, but could be driven in manual or automatic as was the drivers wish.

Sorry but i have to correct you. If you passed your first PSV test in the mid 70s, in an LT pre select RT type bus, you would have got an All Types (automatic gearbox only) PSV driving licence. What is commonly referred to as a "Full" PSV driving licence had to be taken on a manual gearbox bus or coach with a conventional clutch, a pre select was counted as being an automatic gearbox by both LT and the authorities.

I passed my first PSV driving test in the same way as you, on an RT, and that was well before the mid 70s, and had an automatic only PSV driving licence all my life until I gave it up post retirement, badge number N78034.

There was an instance at some point in the 70s/80s of some new LT drivers being issued in error with full licences but within a few weeks they were reissued correctly.

Type Training (not testing) was an internal practice whereby LT required all drivers to receive tuition on each vehicle type thy would be required to drive, and be "passed out" or signed off by an LT driving instructor as competent to drive that type - hence Type Training. The reasons could be to do with vehicle size, odd sub class features, gearbox differences (as with RT/RM) etc. etc.

richw · 10 Dec 2019

harz99 said:
Type Training (not testing) was an internal practice whereby LT required all drivers to receive tuition on each vehicle type

This was the case at the First OpCo I work at. Passed my test on the Wednesday spent Thursday and Friday being taken out by the instructor in various types of bus.

philthetube · 11 Dec 2019

harz99 said:
Sorry but i have to correct you. If you passed your first PSV test in the mid 70s, in an LT pre select RT type bus, you would have got an All Types (automatic gearbox only) PSV driving licence. What is commonly referred to as a "Full" PSV driving licence had to be taken on a manual gearbox bus or coach with a conventional clutch, a pre select was counted as being an automatic gearbox by both LT and the authorities.

.

also known as a full stick licence. Full refering to being able to drive all types and Stick being tho obvious gear lever.

Geordie driver · 11 Dec 2019

It wasn't particularly official but after I passed my test we were taken into the depot and had a go at what vehicles were available. The first time I drove an LH in service I couldn't get reverse gear, another driver hopped on and explained you had to open the cab door to put it in reverse!

jp4712 · 11 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
If it was a running day I suspect there will be the usual collection of 'experts' (most of who haven't been near a loaded bus) discussing how it should have been done.

I suspect most back-seat experts don't even know what a snatch change is, or when it's used. Fortunately in a half-cab with a bulkhead window you can't hear the tutting. My own buses are a preselector and a semi-automatic, much easier...

GusB · 11 Dec 2019

jp4712 said:
I suspect most back-seat experts don't even know what a snatch change is, or when it's used. Fortunately in a half-cab with a bulkhead window you can't hear the tutting. My own buses are a preselector and a semi-automatic, much easier...

I've never heard it called a snatch change, but I recall seeing it referred to as a quick-change when starting on a hill. Perhaps you could explain?

From my childhood, I can recall certain drivers double de-clutching on the manual box Leopards that were still kicking around at the time, probably a hangover from the days of crash gearboxes. Having said that, in my early school days there were still a few Albion Vikings around.

Manual/ Automatic PCV licence

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