Slowest city bus routes

Mike99 · 9 Dec 2019

Following on from the Longest City Bus Route thread currently running, it gave me cause to comment on TfL Route 55. Route 55 operates from Oxford Circus to Walthamstow. Details form Robert Munster's excellent London Bus Route site tells us that, it is a route distance of 9 miles, 14 km. The timetables quotes the 16:40 departure from Oxford Circus to Walthamstow as arriving at 18:40. 120 minutes for 9 miles so therefore a paltry 4.5 miles an hour. In fact on closer inspection 36 minutes are allowed from Holborn 'Bloomsbury Square' to Old Street Station a distance of 1.5 miles(google maps) so timed at just 2.5mph

London always seems to be an exception to any transport rule, but are there any examples of other places in the country where the mph for a scheduled bus route are so low?

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johntea · 9 Dec 2019

Try getting from Leeds centre to Headingley centre via a bus at rush hour times, it’s actually quicker to walk the 2 miles!

Statto · 10 Dec 2019

11A/11C Birmingham Outer Circle, early morning, evening & Sunday journeys take under 2 hours, in the peaks this is timed to take 3 hours

56131 EllColl · 10 Dec 2019

Glasgow Queen Street to Central service 398 must be a contender hardly worth the hassle. Anyway McGills 901/906 might be considered something of an alternative.

ValleyLines142 · 10 Dec 2019

Mike99 said:
Following on from the Longest City Bus Route thread currently running, it gave me cause to comment on TfL Route 55. Route 55 operates from Oxford Circus to Walthamstow. Details form Robert Munster's excellent London Bus Route site tells us that, it is a route distance of 9 miles, 14 km. The timetables quotes the 16:40 departure from Oxford Circus to Walthamstow as arriving at 18:40. 120 minutes for 9 miles so therefore a paltry 4.5 miles an hour. In fact on closer inspection 36 minutes are allowed from Holborn 'Bloomsbury Square' to Old Street Station a distance of 1.5 miles(google maps) so timed at just 2.5mph

London always seems to be an exception to any transport rule, but are there any examples of other places in the country where the mph for a scheduled bus route are so low?

That's pretty poor to be honest, although I imagine the 55 is one of those routes that is just an amalgamation of short journeys merged together. In reality, anybody going to Walthamstow, unless they had an intense fear/dislike of the train, would just go to Liverpool Street and get the Overground (20 minutes!)

Having said that, when I was in London, I had to get from Hackney to Brentford, and the quickest way to do it was the Overground from Hackney Central to Gunnersbury and then the H91 to Brentford! It was either that or the 106/254 to Whitechapel, Central Line to Ealing Broadway and then the N65 to Brentford!

Busaholic · 10 Dec 2019

DanTrainMan185 said:
That's pretty poor to be honest, although I imagine the 55 is one of those routes that is just an amalgamation of short journeys merged together. In reality, anybody going to Walthamstow, unless they had an intense fear/dislike of the train, would just go to Liverpool Street and get the Overground (20 minutes!)

Having said that, when I was in London, I had to get from Hackney to Brentford, and the quickest way to do it was the Overground from Hackney Central to Gunnersbury and then the H91 to Brentford! It was either that or the 106/254 to Whitechapel, Central Line to Ealing Broadway and then the N65 to Brentford!

Other than the recent short (mileage-wise) extension from Leyton Green to Walthamstow to cover the withdrawal of the 48 route, the 55 has always been a 'trunk' route, even having reached Walthamstow previously in the past. Almost all of the longer routes have always been as long, if not longer: the 25 used to run from Victoria to Becontree Heath, the 38 from Victoria to the edge of Epping Forest, the 53 from Plumstead to Camden Town, for instance. Incidentally, if you were starting at Oxford Circus, the alternative to the 55 to Walthamstow would be the direct Victoria Line, Liverpool Street being a considerable diversion, as well as much more expensive!

MedwayValiant · 10 Dec 2019

The mention of "Victoria to the edge of Epping Forest" has reminded me of something, and I'm hoping someone here may know more detail.

I'm going right back to the 70s, when I was a small person who was very excited to get the Guinness Book of Records for Christmas. I think the GBoR is all rather celebrity focused these days, but back in the 70s it had exciting stuff like "Member of the House of Lords with the most Christian names" (I think someone had eight), and silly stuff like the record time for eating a can of beans with a toothpick, and the record time for pushing a hospital bed (occupied) up Snowdon.

Anyway, it also had a paragraph on the longest London Bus route, and I seem to remember that the route in question went from Epping to Brentwood. The direct route between these two towns is 12 miles of nothing very interesting and not in London, so did this particularly long route go via Walthamstow and Ilford or some such?

APT618S · 10 Dec 2019

Busaholic said:
Almost all of the longer routes have always been as long, if not longer: the 25 used to run from Victoria to Becontree Heath

And that was after it had been cut back from Hornchurch Station Lane. ☺

Busaholic · 10 Dec 2019

MedwayValiant said:
The mention of "Victoria to the edge of Epping Forest" has reminded me of something, and I'm hoping someone here may know more detail.

I'm going right back to the 70s, when I was a small person who was very excited to get the Guinness Book of Records for Christmas. I think the GBoR is all rather celebrity focused these days, but back in the 70s it had exciting stuff like "Member of the House of Lords with the most Christian names" (I think someone had eight), and silly stuff like the record time for eating a can of beans with a toothpick, and the record time for pushing a hospital bed (occupied) up Snowdon.

Anyway, it also had a paragraph on the longest London Bus route, and I seem to remember that the route in question went from Epping to Brentwood. The direct route between these two towns is 12 miles of nothing very interesting and not in London, so did this particularly long route go via Walthamstow and Ilford or some such?

In 1977 the 247 route from Brentwood to Romford via Harold Wood and Gidea Park was extended over the withdrawn 250 route to Epping, via Collier Row and Theydon Bois, indirect enough given the 339 via Ongar probably only took about a quarter/third of the time between the two Essex termini!

Busaholic · 10 Dec 2019

APT618S said:
And that was after it had been cut back from Hornchurch Station Lane. ☺

Yes, but I'm only talking about routes I can personally remember and, in most cases, travelled the length of. Makes me old enough as it is!

Statto · 10 Dec 2019

Busaholic said:
In 1977 the 247 route from Brentwood to Romford via Harold Wood and Gidea Park was extended over the withdrawn 250 route to Epping, via Collier Row and Theydon Bois, indirect enough given the 339 via Ongar probably only took about a quarter/third of the time between the two Essex termini!

I think he's on about the old 10 Victoria-Abridge, which had a few route changes mostly cut back at both ends in the 70s, ended up being Wanstead-London Bridge operated by nationals before it was withdrawn

_toommm_ · 11 Dec 2019

johntea said:
Try getting from Leeds centre to Headingley centre via a bus at rush hour times, it’s actually quicker to walk the 2 miles!

Try actually getting on a bus at all in rush hour on Otley Road. I live in the city and go to Headingley Campus a lot and regularly have to wait for the 7th or 8th bus, which is then full of school kids too.

ValleyLines142 · 11 Dec 2019

Busaholic said:
Other than the recent short (mileage-wise) extension from Leyton Green to Walthamstow to cover the withdrawal of the 48 route, the 55 has always been a 'trunk' route, even having reached Walthamstow previously in the past. Almost all of the longer routes have always been as long, if not longer: the 25 used to run from Victoria to Becontree Heath, the 38 from Victoria to the edge of Epping Forest, the 53 from Plumstead to Camden Town, for instance. Incidentally, if you were starting at Oxford Circus, the alternative to the 55 to Walthamstow would be the direct Victoria Line, Liverpool Street being a considerable diversion, as well as much more expensive!

D'oh! Of course, didn't even think of the Victoria! And I've been on it more times than I've had cooked dinners! :lol:

jamesst · 11 Dec 2019

The 82 from the South End into Liverpool city centre, you can lose the will to live on that bus.

Statto · 11 Dec 2019

10A Liverpool One-St Helens can take over 90 minutes in the peak, i've taken 30 minutes to get from Liverpool One to past the Royal Liverpool Hospital, & taken 15 minutes to get from Green Lane to Queens Drive[normally takes around 5 minutes on a clear run] many a time, then there's the traffic lights at Page Moss, & all the lights after Page Moss to the M57, & Merseytravel were planning this route to be the only route going through Queen Square into the City Centre & Liverpool One, those plans are on hold.

markymark2000 · 11 Dec 2019

Statto said:
10A Liverpool One-St Helens can take over 90 minutes in the peak, i've taken 30 minutes to get from Liverpool One to past the Royal Liverpool Hospital, & taken 15 minutes to get from Green Lane to Queens Drive[normally takes around 5 minutes on a clear run] many a time, then there's the traffic lights at Page Moss, & all the lights after Page Moss to the M57, & Merseytravel were planning this route to be the only route going through Queen Square into the City Centre & Liverpool One, those plans are on hold.

Depending on the traffic, it can take 30 mins just from Queens Square to Liverpool One. Nevermind onto the Hospital.

transmanche · 11 Dec 2019

MedwayValiant said:
Anyway, it also had a paragraph on the longest London Bus route, and I seem to remember that the route in question went from Epping to Brentwood. The direct route between these two towns is 12 miles of nothing very interesting and not in London, so did this particularly long route go via Walthamstow and Ilford or some such?

Between 1977 and 1981, route 247 ran between Epping and Brentwood via Theydon Bois, Stapleford Abbots, Collier Row, Romford and Gidea Park. (Prior to 1977 it ran between Brentwood and Romford/Collier Row but was extended to replace route 250 which had run between Romford and Epping.)

It's listed on Ian Armstrong's excellent site.

Statto · 11 Dec 2019

markymark2000 said:
Depending on the traffic, it can take 30 mins just from Queens Square to Liverpool One. Nevermind onto the Hospital.

Oh indeed not only traffic but the amount of traffic lights the route goes through in the city centre too,, can be waiting at the lights to leave at Liverpool One for a few minutes, then catches the next set of lights, which are the exit of the Liverpool One car park, then lights turning into James Street, i calculate about 10 sets of lights from Liverpool One to Queen Square alone, catch all of them on red for 3 to 4 minutes at a time very easy to take 30 minutes Liverpool One to Queen Square o_O

delt1c · 11 Dec 2019

Busaholic said:
Other than the recent short (mileage-wise) extension from Leyton Green to Walthamstow to cover the withdrawal of the 48 route, the 55 has always been a 'trunk' route, even having reached Walthamstow previously in the past. Almost all of the longer routes have always been as long, if not longer: the 25 used to run from Victoria to Becontree Heath, the 38 from Victoria to the edge of Epping Forest, the 53 from Plumstead to Camden Town, for instance. Incidentally, if you were starting at Oxford Circus, the alternative to the 55 to Walthamstow would be the direct Victoria Line, Liverpool Street being a considerable diversion, as well as much more expensive!

The 53 was extended for a time from Camden Town To Parliament Hill Fields

FrodshamJnct · 11 Dec 2019

ANYTHING that involves going along Oxford Road/Street and Portland Street in Manchester. Arguably anything involving Piccadilly Gardens.

delt1c · 11 Dec 2019

MedwayValiant said:
The mention of "Victoria to the edge of Epping Forest" has reminded me of something, and I'm hoping someone here may know more detail.

I'm going right back to the 70s, when I was a small person who was very excited to get the Guinness Book of Records for Christmas. I think the GBoR is all rather celebrity focused these days, but back in the 70s it had exciting stuff like "Member of the House of Lords with the most Christian names" (I think someone had eight), and silly stuff like the record time for eating a can of beans with a toothpick, and the record time for pushing a hospital bed (occupied) up Snowdon.

Anyway, it also had a paragraph on the longest London Bus route, and I seem to remember that the route in question went from Epping to Brentwood. The direct route between these two towns is 12 miles of nothing very interesting and not in London, so did this particularly long route go via Walthamstow and Ilford or some such?

When I worked at Dalston Garage in London we had the 47, where in Evenings and Sundays we did Dalston Garage to Farnborough "The George" and could just manage 2 return trips

Busaholic · 11 Dec 2019

delt1c said:
The 53 was extended for a time from Camden Town To Parliament Hill Fields

And, for that matter, from Plumstead to Erith on a Sunday, but, as with the other routes I quoted, I concentrated on the sections that passed the test of time, rather than the whims of transport planners attempting to shave a bus or two from the overall schedules in the name of cost saving!

DavidGrain · 11 Dec 2019

Statto said:
11A/11C Birmingham Outer Circle, early morning, evening & Sunday journeys take under 2 hours, in the peaks this is timed to take 3 hours

If I remember correctly the Outer Circle is 26 miles so that is 7.7 mph if the timetable says 3 hours,

Busaholic · 11 Dec 2019

delt1c said:
When I worked at Dalston Garage in London we had the 47, where in Evenings and Sundays we did Dalston Garage to Farnborough "The George" and could just manage 2 return trips

For a very brief time starting in 1971 Clapton garage were given a weekday allocation on the 47, never having, before or since, had any routes encroaching into S.E. London let alone way out to Bromley and Farnborough. I've told the anecdote on here before, but, working in L.T. bus schedules as I did, I spotted that Clapton had one journey per week, on a Saturday evening, out to Farnborough and, living in Bromley as I then did, I travelled on it on the first day and discovered the crew had no clue what to do after Bromley Garage, thinking straight down the A21 would get them to Farnborough, whereas you had to turn off with little prior warning at an extremely underlit road sign. I offered to accompany the crew to indicate to the conductor to ring the bell twice in good time before the turning, which was duly done. Apparently route learning had got no further than Bromley Garage, probably because no-one realised that any Clapton buses were scheduled through. Clapton, being just that bit further north than Dalston, could probably not have managed more than the one through journey to keep within the strict duty agreements with the union.

delt1c · 12 Dec 2019

Busaholic said:
For a very brief time starting in 1971 Clapton garage were given a weekday allocation on the 47, never having, before or since, had any routes encroaching into S.E. London let alone way out to Bromley and Farnborough. I've told the anecdote on here before, but, working in L.T. bus schedules as I did, I spotted that Clapton had one journey per week, on a Saturday evening, out to Farnborough and, living in Bromley as I then did, I travelled on it on the first day and discovered the crew had no clue what to do after Bromley Garage, thinking straight down the A21 would get them to Farnborough, whereas you had to turn off with little prior warning at an extremely underlit road sign. I offered to accompany the crew to indicate to the conductor to ring the bell twice in good time before the turning, which was duly done. Apparently route learning had got no further than Bromley Garage, probably because no-one realised that any Clapton buses were scheduled through. Clapton, being just that bit further north than Dalston, could probably not have managed more than the one through journey to keep within the strict duty agreements with the union.

Same thing happened to me on 1st trip to Farnborough on a Sunday Morning . Had a new driver and we missed the turn and kept going straight, crazy thing was we a couple of passengers on at the time , they said they knew we had gone wrong but were enjoying the Sunday drive.

HSTEd · 13 Dec 2019

Tom Maddox said:
ANYTHING that involves going along Oxford Road/Street and Portland Street in Manchester. Arguably anything involving Piccadilly Gardens.

This route is absolutely horrendous, the depressing part is that most of the travel time is people trying to buy tickets with cash or card, or waiting for people to file up and down the stairs on double decks.

The route has also not really been provided with enough busstop space, which means busses often end up waiting for a slot on the stop, delaying things still further.
Not much to be done about it though beyond banning onboard payments and replacing at least some of the deckers with single deckers.

Possibly could get things moving by making subsidary routes on the corridor, 111 or 86 etc pick-up or drop-off only in the appropriate directions.

Slowest city bus routes

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