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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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Speed43125

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Just seen on Twitter that a refurb looks to be heading north. I can't find anything on RTT though.

From photos the power cars are 43140 & 43150.

https://twitter.com/SoleCrowleSoul/status/1204410851827970049
Saw this on that guys page as well:
https://twitter.com/SoleCrowleSoul/status/1204406782593884160

Is that an old VT Mk.3a with cut out for sliding doors? whats the story there? anyone know? it's got it's main doors removed, but it looks like it's being prepped for wabtec conversion, any insight>
 
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Paul Kerr

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The sensible approach right now would be to deliver them all as 4-car and add the 5th car to each set at the end of the programme.

Theoretically that would give you all 26 sets much quicker, so I agree on the surface that's a better approach, but would that not drive a change to the schedule and pricing in the contract? The agreed tender and contract was for 17 5-car sets and 9 4-car.
 

ER158715

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Kilmarnock are not doing full conversions or indeed rakes. They are creating the aperture for the new doors. The coaches are then due to be sent by road to Doncaster for completion.
As for 5 car takes, you won’t see them for a while as they are going to be delivered as 4 car and strengthened later.
From pics seen elsewhere, there looks to be another coach or two also completed outside.

EDIT- see post 10664 further down for updated info!
 
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Killingworth

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Kilmarnock are not doing full conversions or indeed rakes. They are creating the aperture for the new doors. The coaches are then due to be sent by road to Doncaster for completion.
As for 5 car takes, you won’t see them for a while as they are going to be delivered as 4 car and strengthened later.
From pics seen elsewhere, there looks to be another coach or two also completed outside.

I'm curious. How long does it take to create 4 apertures in a coach? How many can be worked on at once? How many apertured coaches have been sent by road? And how long has Kilmarnock been working on them?

I ask because the output of completed rakes should have speeded up since they came into the equation, but it seems to have slowed down. Maybe due to changed production line arrangements. It must be about to accelerate considerably very soon.
 

ER158715

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I'm curious. How long does it take to create 4 apertures in a coach? How many can be worked on at once? How many apertured coaches have been sent by road? And how long has Kilmarnock been working on them?

I ask because the output of completed rakes should have speeded up since they came into the equation, but it seems to have slowed down. It must be about to accelerate considerably very soon.

It depends on how bad the corrosion on each coach is plus also no two original doors were the same. From memory, they only had the contract to do a limited number originally.
Not sure how many have actually been sent south but it’s not their main work on the Kilmarnock site.
 

hexagon789

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Right, okay, I see. Just a tad surprised.

Quite a few works have spare coaches dotted about for various purposes such as trialling paint jobs and so forth.

As for 5 car takes, you won’t see them for a while as they are going to be delivered as 4 car and strengthened later.

How long will it take for the additional trailers to be converted and then transferred and then inserted into the relevant sets? At the rate things are going it could be several months just for those extra trailers to enter service.
 

ER158715

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Yes, it’ll take a while for the extra trailers but it’s far more important to get physical 4 car sets in operation and reliability up than worrying about an extra coach.
Look at it this way. If the delivery of 4 car sets isn’t disrupted by waiting for a fifth coach to be converted, it means more sets for traffic (%wise) and less chance of a 158 turning up instead. The additional 5th car can be inserted in each set whilst it goes through its C4 exam or other convenient time.
 

hexagon789

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Yes, it’ll take a while for the extra trailers but it’s far more important to get physical 4 car sets in operation and reliability up than worrying about an extra coach.
Look at it this way. If the delivery of 4 car sets isn’t disrupted by waiting for a fifth coach to be converted, it means more sets for traffic (%wise) and less chance of a 158 turning up instead. The additional 5th car can be inserted in each set whilst it goes through its C4 exam or other convenient time.

I appreciate that, but I can't be the only one thinking about how much longer it'll be then before we get 2+5 sets as promised
 

ER158715

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How long is a piece of string? I don’t mean to be flippant but each coach is unique and some seem to be done quicker and easier than others. It’s possible that things may pick up once the GWR and XC ones are complete but it seems to be anyone’s guess. I very much doubt we will ever find out. The important thing is to get the sets out, all the reliability issues sorted and then bedded down into regular service, and then a post-mortem can be carried out. The circular arguments on here won’t get the sets out any quicker and I know it’s frustrating for passengers and staff alike but what everyone seems to agree on, is that a refurb Mk3 is a better passenger experience than a 170 or 158.
 

ER158715

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Apologies, I’ve just found the original info on the Kilmarnock work. I (wrongly) had it in my head that the doors were being fitted at Doncaster. It was planned that the coaches would be completed at Kilmarnock and then sent to Doncaster for testing and inserting into rakes. The first coach (TSL) was completed and moved by road to Doncaster at the end of September.
 

Clansman

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Was known a while ago. I put it on the FAQ a couple months ago.

If I recall they're looking at converting TGS vehicles to solve the bike space issue.
 

InOban

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According to a post in the Diagrams thread, there are 7 sets out today, which must be a record; although one had to be terminated at Perth because of the level of the river Earn. I assume that they are all refurbs - are they still using the Classics?
 

43096

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According to a post in the Diagrams thread, there are 7 sets out today, which must be a record; although one had to be terminated at Perth because of the level of the river Earn. I assume that they are all refurbs - are they still using the Classics?
But.... that means just 14 of 52 power cars in service. Which is an utterly appalling availability figure.
 

CJSwan

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According to a post in the Diagrams thread, there are 7 sets out today, which must be a record; although one had to be terminated at Perth because of the level of the river Earn. I assume that they are all refurbs - are they still using the Classics?
A combination of classics and refurbs out today.
 

43096

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They haven't enough sets at the moment to be able to use all 52 power cars, so the situation is not as bad as 14/52.
How many sets do they have? 8 refurbs (plus one just delivered), and how many classics?

Something is stopping them getting them into service - is it power car availability or trailer cars? Either way it is abysmal.
 

Steven_G

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How many sets do they have? 8 refurbs (plus one just delivered), and how many classics?

Something is stopping them getting them into service - is it power car availability or trailer cars? Either way it is abysmal.

And this is the question nobody has been able to answer.
 
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