I wouldn’t know, but I’d be very much surprised if there’s 2 guards working for every contingency guard. As I said, I’d be more interested to know how many guards should have booked on today, compared to how many actually did.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
SWR Longest Strike - December 2019
- Thread starter theironroad
- Start date
- Status
I wouldn’t know, but I’d be very much surprised if there’s 2 guards working for every contingency guard. As I said, I’d be more interested to know how many guards should have booked on today, compared to how many actually did.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
My suspicion too.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 15,255
And what is the cause of those medical incidents? Crush loading because there’s fewer trains running? If so, there’d be less danger if they ran DOO.
Agree and I’m aware knocking down those bridges is not easy and not possible. At least few parts of the track can be stretchable (not the full length) which can at least help for some faster trains. Looks like this is impossible and hopefully it’ll happen one day before I retire in the next 30 years.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 15,255
The Reading line has been an utter shambles both days. Monday morning saw the first one off Reading start at Staines due to no guard, the next two cancelled due to the strike and the fourth one started at Ascot due to a total lack of interest in running a service. So the first train off Reading was at 0642 and didn’t arrive in London til gone 0825 due to a train fault. Simply unacceptable and all down to SWR.
The problem is that there in't much spare capacity further in so some other services would have to be axed or stops removed from some of the existing ones... And there is plenty of revenue lost at those stops if you remove them.
theironroad
Established Member
If younlook on the author's Twitter profile the whole article is available in a tweet he made last week.
Thank you for explaining this.
I hadn't realised not everyone signs 456s. Given they exist on a reasonable number of services with 455 rolling stock, I'm surprised they didn't train people up to the standard to sign them, especially when the strike is for a month. I appreciate it would impact on other work but the strike is doing that any way.
I do find some of the info given on here more informative that what SWR give out via official means.
Finally, if I may ask this, why didn't the RMT strike every other day. If SWR can't implement a full timetable in between two strike days, it would cause the same disruption for half the salary loss. Maybe SWR woild style the strike day timetable in such away that they could run more service on the non-strike, unlike the way they felt it needed to be done in this strike.
Thry are getting a reasonable number of people asking why they can't run a normal timetable tomorrow and I imagine that will increase tomorrow itself.
I did hear a guard today say they will be running the same timetable tomorrow.
SWT_USER
Member
Disappointing that they are not running a few extra peak services at they very least tomorrow given they should have a full quota of guards available.
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,017
I do wonder what they're playing at in terms of extra services. There's an Ascot to Aldershot service running today, but nothing (as yet) on Journey check.
SWT_USER
Member
That's poor from SWR. This dispute has been ongoing for ages. They should have got the relevant people trained. It is obvious that running fewer services will mean those that do run will be busier so SWR should have ensured nothing less than 10 coaches is diagrammed to Waterloo.
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 24,151
Very easy to say that but not so easy when training school is maxed out with new recruits and you are relying on people who already have full-time jobs to take on extra responsibility outside their usual workload.
There are strict standards that must be adhered to and you can't cut corners to push people through.
londonbridge
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 1,461
Radio London travel bulletin this morning, "Southeastern reporting 20 minute delays between victoria and Bromley South due to signalling problems at Beckenham Junction, the rest of the tubes and trains reporting a good service"......do the BBC consider a strike timetable to be a "good service", or have the media just given up reporting on the strike and its effects?
SWT_USER
Member
Really? Is a 456 that different from a 455 in terms of training? Isn't it just a 1 day conversion course or something? (genuine question, the only major difference as a passenger is that the 456 are 2 coaches)
nuts & bolts
Member
There is no such thing as a conversion course for guards, in terms of familiarity the 455 & 456 differ in cab layout & operation as standalone or in hybrid formation (8 + 2) and more importantly ASDO (auto selective door opening) is not installed due to age of rolling stock which is required on routes affected with short platforms.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,372
Perhaps they’re just bored with it, but yes, delays will only be reported against the strike timetable...
I suspect that after this week numbers travelling will reduce in the run up to Christmas anyway so a few missing 456 from formations will present less of an issue. My comment wasn't so much of a dig, more of frustration that my "half the frequency" train is shorter as well? Now I know why! Obviously Shepperton shuttles are going to be 8 coach max due the the length of Kingston bay platform.
This is a bit off topic I know but forgive me because Ian Walmsley (ex Porterbrook manager) talked about this in terms of traction on this line, and made some interesting points. The only way to increase speed is to a) use units with better acceleration+braking characteristics and b) use the same fleets so you don't get the odd bad egg holding the rest up (Let's not talk about door operation for the moment). WHen the Class 455 was first prototyped it had all axles motored and was a lightweight body (26.5 tonnes v (eg) 35.5 on a class 450) so acceleration was terrific on a line with a lot of stops. When it went into service the traction motors had been cut to 50% axles (this is what the DfT does for a living) and now the Class 508 units have only 25% powered axles. All for short term cost savings. SO the whole service is constrained to run at the pace of the slowest performing units. As others rightly say the tracks aren't going to be doubled so this was the only way to get a) faster and b) more trains on this line. It's always shorter termism to save a few bob isn't it?
nuts & bolts
Member
It's very much dependent on how many routes the guard will hold competency on, also some services run 8 or 10 coaches factor in that the 10 car hybrids (8 + 2) do run in reverse formation and you have to be very aware of your stepping off point onto platform when giving full release of doors.
A good example Is Hinchley Wood 'on the up' towards Surbiton, this station has an extreme curve away from you. There are cctv dispatch monitors on the platform to assist in mandatory dispatch, but you need to be in the correct position of the train when arriving and be on (correct door) the money with a dispatch monitor to minimise dwell time and safe dispatch. Also bear in mind that you will be operating a hybrid which could be in reverse formation either 2 coach leading or 8 leading.
Other Stn's on the New Line: Cobham & Stoke d'Abernon & London Rd which have similar safety issues with curved platforms.
There are stations on other routes which will have permutations and it's route and traction knowledge which underpin your competency for you to be confident in carrying out safety critical duties.
3141
Established Member
You’re commenting on what happened 37 years ago – when the class 455s first entered service – from the point of view of 2019. The number of passengers was much smaller then, so it wasn’t necessary to build trains with the fastest possible acceleration in order to squeeze as many as possible onto the tracks.
Similarly, your remark “this is what the DfT does for a living” isn’t really relevant, since at that time the DfT had a much less important role in the railways than it does today. It is more likely to have been the Treasury which decided there wasn’t enough money to do all the things BR was aiming for, so BR had to find ways of building the new trains more cheaply.
The fact that SWR are now obtaining a new fleet of class 701s to replace 455s, 458s and 707s shows that it isn’t “always shorter termism to save a few bob isn't it”.
I guess we're on the verge of having to open a new thread.
You’re commenting on what happened 37 years ago – when the class 455s first entered service – from the point of view of 2019. The number of passengers was much smaller then, so it wasn’t necessary to build trains with the fastest possible acceleration in order to squeeze as many as possible onto the tracks.
Similarly, your remark “this is what the DfT does for a living” isn’t really relevant, since at that time the DfT had a much less important role in the railways than it does today. It is more likely to have been the Treasury which decided there wasn’t enough money to do all the things BR was aiming for, so BR had to find ways of building the new trains more cheaply.
The fact that SWR are now obtaining a new fleet of class 701s to replace 455s, 458s and 707s shows that it isn’t “always shorter termism to save a few bob isn't it”.
I guess we're on the verge of having to open a new thread.
Wish they kept the 707s. They are perfect for the suburban routes.
theironroad
Established Member
I've not read all the recent posts, but can definitely say that there were plenty of 455/456 10 car combinations running this afternoon between Woking and Waterloo.
Last edited:
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,372
But they’re not, as has been explained with respect to the franchise spec time and again...
they are quick people movers though, even if they’re slightly underpowered vs the 700s, certainly would beat anything on DC that I’ve travelled on. Oh well, time for another speculative 707 thread
Point accepted with thanks! But isn't the point about powering a train for the service capacity AT THE TIME exactly what iam Walmsley was saying? You don't build new trains every day so shouldn't the Treasury (Thank you, agree) accepted the advice of the planners and designers and gone with a train that could match projected passenger growth? Your point about the 701s is a good one , and perhaps this is the solution to a faster service on this line. If we can get service planners to stop building more slack into journey times to avoid late penalties then going forward commuters from places like Wokingham and Bracknell could get a 10 minute shorter journey.You’re commenting on what happened 37 years ago – when the class 455s first entered service – from the point of view of 2019. The number of passengers was much smaller then, so it wasn’t necessary to build trains with the fastest possible acceleration in order to squeeze as many as possible onto the tracks.
Similarly, your remark “this is what the DfT does for a living” isn’t really relevant, since at that time the DfT had a much less important role in the railways than it does today. It is more likely to have been the Treasury which decided there wasn’t enough money to do all the things BR was aiming for, so BR had to find ways of building the new trains more cheaply.
The fact that SWR are now obtaining a new fleet of class 701s to replace 455s, 458s and 707s shows that it isn’t “always shorter termism to save a few bob isn't it”.
I guess we're on the verge of having to open a new thread.
Fiyero
Member
I've seen the timetable for this weekend and it seems rather bare. I need to travel Eastleigh - London around 9AM Saturday and London - Southampton around 5pm Sunday (I've already booked a hotel overnight as a theatre day trip wasn't possible!)
There is 1 train an hour for each - should I prepare to squeeze in and stand or has it been ok at weekends? (I hope this is the right place to ask)
There is 1 train an hour for each - should I prepare to squeeze in and stand or has it been ok at weekends? (I hope this is the right place to ask)
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,017
My experience, on the Reading line at least, which is normally perpetually busy, is that people have used other means or simply not travelled.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Aug 2016
- Messages
- 5,228
Cross Country Southampton Airport Parkway to Reading and GWR from there?
Last edited:
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,372
Or Parkway? I think I saw there’s engineering work in the Fareham area, so there’ll probably be a gap in the timetable with the Portsmouth trains missing.
- Status