TfL Rail to Reading Fares

matt_world2004 · 7 Dec 2019

A quick glance at some fares, it appears there are going to be a lot of fare loopholes open up from january , cheaper fares for going further distances and through the same zones or greater zones with shenfield

RailUK Forums

gaillark · 7 Dec 2019

It's going to be a bit of a mess with regard to compensation for delays. The only real solution is for TfL to be forced by government or RGG to adopt delay repay scheme for its Overground and Crossrail operations which will then be fair to all passengers as the same rules of delay repay apply nationally irrespective of operator. Or amend national conditions of carriage to adopt delay repay as standard.
TfL is far less generous in its compensation scheme as others have already noted.

cactustwirly · 7 Dec 2019

Tbh I think the fares are going to be the least of TfL's worries, once the commuters see how basic the trains are on the Monday morning

JonathanH · 7 Dec 2019

cactustwirly said:
Tbh I think the fares are going to be the least of TfL's worries, once the commuters see how basic the trains are on the Monday morning

Contactless doesn't apply until 2 January which will be confusing of itself.

On the point of peak / off-peak fares in the evening peak I fail to see how Maidenhead to Reading is a peak journey in the evening peak and Reading to Maidenhead isn't - I would imagine the number of people making the journey out of Reading exceeds the number going towards Reading at that time. (I note that the differential in fares isn't that great.)

class717 · 9 Dec 2019

Indigo2 said:
The discount is available: http://www.brfares.com/#!rovers?nlc=I066&rlc=TSU
Price is £11.

Thanks for that, went to Paddington ticket office the other week. They said they weren't sure and to just buy on the day and that they'd get that reported so hopefully they will update the system by the 15th. However NR told me "the ticket is eligible for a discount and, if you are unable to add the 16-17 Saver concession to it, then you are advised to buy a child fare and show the saver card if checked by the staff." however the staff at Paddington seemed to think otherwise and wouldn't give me a child ticket instead. Maybe I should just buy a child ticket online. Is it true that the ticket office at Paddington is open 24 hours a day? On a Sunday too?

TFN · 10 Dec 2019

class717 said:
Is it true that the ticket office at Paddington is open 24 hours a day? On a Sunday too?

Only the fares to pay desk is open 24hrs on the London end of Platform 3/4

matt_world2004 · 10 Dec 2019

It says in a briefing document that tfl are engaged with some sort of negotiation with GwR about service delay refunds it doesn't specify what though. I speculate you will be able to go to either TfL or GwR for refunds on either service. Considering the tube is 15 minutes TfL Rail should be 15 minutes too if the other operator is.

transmanche · 10 Dec 2019

matt_world2004 said:
Considering the tube is 15 minutes TfL Rail should be 15 minutes too if the other operator is.

The schemes are very different though:

London Underground and DLR have a 15-minute threshold and offer a full refund - but it excludes things out of their control (e.g. bad weather, passenger action, strikes, etc.)
London Overground and TfL Rail have a 30-minute threshold and offer a full refund - but, again, it excludes things out of their control.
GWR's Delay Repay has a 15-minute threshold and offers a 25% refund (50% if 30 minutes or more and a full refund if 60 minutes or more) - and it includes delays whatever the cause.

What you gain with one hand, you lose with the other. There's no way you're going to get an LU-style '15-mins delay for a full refund' scheme including delays whatever the cause.

* Although NRCoT condition 33 applies to delays longer than 60 minutes for journeys that go outside the PAYG area.

hkstudent · 11 Dec 2019

transmanche said:
The schemes are very different though:

London Underground and DLR have a 15-minute threshold and offer a full refund - but it excludes things out of their control (e.g. bad weather, passenger action, strikes, etc.)

London Overground and TfL Rail have a 30-minute threshold and offer a full refund - but, again, it excludes things out of their control.

GWR's Delay Repay has a 15-minute threshold and offers a 25% refund (50% if 30 minutes or more and a full refund if 60 minutes or more) - and it includes delays whatever the cause.

What you gain with one hand, you lose with the other. There's no way you're going to get an LU-style '15-mins delay for a full refund' scheme including delays whatever the cause.

* Although NRCoT condition 33 applies to delays longer than 60 minutes for journeys that go outside the PAYG area.

One thing worth mention is that LO / TfL Rail doesn't pay delay compensation for non-TfL leg journey (even within Travelcard zone 1-6) if the delay is less than 60 minutes, and for the over 60 minutes one, they just pay out 50% of the journey cost, the minimum requirement by NRCoT.
Surely DfT would need to force TfL to adopt delay repay scheme on top of what they are doing at the moment to provide better protection to passengers.

matt_world2004 · 12 Dec 2019

There appears to be an all night service this Nye between reading and paddington on the TfL rail, I am assuming from 11:45 it's free.

No service to hanwell and Heathrow airport this year, but the Hayes shuttle is also running meaning West Ealing and Acton Main line get an all night service.

gaillark · 12 Dec 2019

hkstudent said:
One thing worth mention is that LO / TfL Rail doesn't pay delay compensation for non-TfL leg journey (even within Travelcard zone 1-6) if the delay is less than 60 minutes, and for the over 60 minutes one, they just pay out 50% of the journey cost, the minimum requirement by NRCoT.
Surely DfT would need to force TfL to adopt delay repay scheme on top of what they are doing at the moment to provide better protection to passengers.

Agree. TFL should be forced to adopt delay repay. On scheme across the board. It will be easier for passengers to understand.
On a side line, all their stations will be de branded from national rail. The double arrow symbol will disappear and brainwash people into thinking that they are nothing to do with national rail like they do on London Overground .

Kite159 · 12 Dec 2019

gaillark said:
Agree. TFL should be forced to adopt delay repay. On scheme across the board. It will be easier for passengers to understand.
On a side line, all their stations will be de branded from national rail. The double arrow symbol will disappear and brainwash people into thinking that they are nothing to do with national rail like they do on London Overground .

Agreed, otherwise passengers for say Twyford could get confused that they can claim for when a GWR service is cancelled and the delay is 15 minutes+, but they can't claim from TfL rail unless the delay was over 30 minutes and within their control

transmanche · 13 Dec 2019

Kite159 said:
Agreed, otherwise passengers for say Twyford could get confused that they can claim for when a GWR service is cancelled and the delay is 15 minutes+, but they can't claim from TfL rail unless the delay was over 30 minutes and within their control

Except, in the example you used, they'd only get a 25% refund from GWR (50% if the delay was over 30 mins) but they'd get a 100% refund from TfL.

As for passengers being 'confused': how is that any different from, say, routes operated by both Northern and TPE where Northern offers DelayRepay15, but TPE do DelayRepay30?

matt_world2004 · 15 Dec 2019

Saw someone already get confused on the train this morning and try and use their contactless card to Langley.

MarlowDonkey · 15 Dec 2019

matt_world2004 said:
Saw someone already get confused on the train this morning and try and use their contactless card to Langley.

No Oyster beyond West Drayton, but isn't contactless going to be allowed at all the stations on the main line ? For whatever reason isn't it a January start?

matt_world2004 · 15 Dec 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
No Oyster beyond West Drayton, but isn't contactless going to be allowed at all the stations on the main line ? For whatever reason isn't it a January start?

Yeah the inspectors offered advice and sent the guy on his way.

FGW_DID · 15 Dec 2019

MarlowDonkey said:
No Oyster beyond West Drayton, but isn't contactless going to be allowed at all the stations on the main line ? For whatever reason isn't it a January start?

From Thursday 2nd January 2020, Contactless pay as you go will be available at all stations on the direct line between London Paddington and Reading. At this stage, Contactless will not be available on GWR’s branch lines.

matt_world2004 · 16 Dec 2019

Anyone had issues with freedom passes or other tickets at reading/non travel card zone stations yet?

hkstudent · 17 Dec 2019

gaillark said:
Agree. TFL should be forced to adopt delay repay. On scheme across the board. It will be easier for passengers to understand.
On a side line, all their stations will be de branded from national rail. The double arrow symbol will disappear and brainwash people into thinking that they are nothing to do with national rail like they do on London Overground .

I am not sure for those TfL Rail passengers delayed 15-29 minutes or in non-TfL contrallable situation may have a case in London Travelwatch for the "downgraded" delay repay policy

JonathanH · 2 Jan 2020

So, GWR have this on their website:

https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/tickets-railcards-and-season-tickets/contactless-payment

Contactless is here

TfL Rail is now accepting Contactless pay as you go on its local stopping services from London Paddington to Reading.

Customers can use their contactless debit or credit card or mobile device to pay for a journey by touching in and out.

TfL Rail started running the stopping services in December as part of its staged plans to introduce the Elizabeth line.

To support TfL Rail’s payment option, we are also offering Contactless pay as you go at all stations on the direct line between London Paddington and Reading.

There is no difference in fares between TfL Rail and GWR services. A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.

At this stage, Contactless pay as you go is not available on GWR’s branch lines (Henley, Marlow and Windsor). Instead, customers need to touch in or touch out at the gateline of the mainline station and be in possession of a ticket for use on the branch line.

If you hold a weekly, monthly or longer season ticket you’ll be better off staying with that option. Customers wishing to use Railcards or take advantage of discounts will not be able to make a Contactless payment. Contactless is only available for adult rate fares. Please ask station staff if you’d like help choosing the right payment for your journey.

Delay Repay is available for customers using Contactless. To claim, customers need to provide a statement from TfL Rail showing the journey they are claiming for. The best way to do this is to set up an online TfL account, to check your journey history online.

To find out more about Contactless visit the TfL Rail website here.

A few confusing things in this:

TfL Rail is now accepting Contactless pay as you go on its local stopping services from London Paddington to Reading.

I wonder how many people have presented a Contactless card on a long distance train from Paddington to Reading or vice versa today and been told it isn't valid. Is Contactless only valid on the 2Nxx / 2Pxx stopping services that run alongside the TfL Rail service? Is it valid on the faster 1Dxx / 1Pxx services that run fast from Paddington to Maidenhead and Twyford? Is the issue simply that HSS train managers don't have Contactless readers or platforms 2 to 5 at Paddington aren't enabled for it?

There is no difference in fares between TfL Rail and GWR services. A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.

This isn't well written. Contactless costs the same on TfL Rail and GWR services but the Contactless fares are obviously different from the existing 'paper' fare structure. It doesn't make clear that the peak applies based on first touch (although regular users should recognise this) - eg the example of touching in at Canary Wharf at 18:55 and being charged for a peak single to Reading even though you might catch a train well after 19:00 from Paddington.

If you hold a weekly, monthly or longer season ticket you’ll be better off staying with that option. Customers wishing to use Railcards or take advantage of discounts will not be able to make a Contactless payment. Contactless is only available for adult rate fares. Please ask station staff if you’d like help choosing the right payment for your journey.

This is good but perhaps it should have noted that some other journeys, particularly off-peak travelcards and off-peak day return tickets are cheaper on the prevailing fare structure. Something like Contactless may not always be cheaper than other options after 09:30 would have been good.

Any practical experiences?

matt_world2004 · 2 Jan 2020

JonathanH said:
So, GWR have this on their website:

https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/tickets-railcards-and-season-tickets/contactless-payment

A few confusing things in this:

TfL Rail is now accepting Contactless pay as you go on its local stopping services from London Paddington to Reading.

I wonder how many people have presented a Contactless card on a long distance train from Paddington to Reading or vice versa today and been told it isn't valid. Is Contactless only valid on the 2Nxx / 2Pxx stopping services that run alongside the TfL Rail service? Is it valid on the faster 1Dxx / 1Pxx services that run fast from Paddington to Maidenhead and Twyford? Is the issue simply that HSS train managers don't have Contactless readers or platforms 2 to 5 at Paddington aren't enabled for it?

There is no difference in fares between TfL Rail and GWR services. A morning peak between 06:30 and 09:30 covers east and westbound services. An afternoon peak between 16:00 and 19:00 applies only on westbound services.

This isn't well written. Contactless costs the same on TfL Rail and GWR services but the Contactless fares are obviously different from the existing 'paper' fare structure. It doesn't make clear that the peak applies based on first touch (although regular users should recognise this) - eg the example of touching in at Canary Wharf at 18:55 and being charged for a peak single to Reading even though you might catch a train well after 19:00 from Paddington.

If you hold a weekly, monthly or longer season ticket you’ll be better off staying with that option. Customers wishing to use Railcards or take advantage of discounts will not be able to make a Contactless payment. Contactless is only available for adult rate fares. Please ask station staff if you’d like help choosing the right payment for your journey.

This is good but perhaps it should have noted that some other journeys, particularly off-peak travelcards and off-peak day return tickets are cheaper on the prevailing fare structure. Something like Contactless may not always be cheaper than other options after 09:30 would have been good.

Any practical experiences?

You can use contactless on the fast services to reading except those that are pick up set down only at reading

MikeWh · 2 Jan 2020

JonathanH said:
I wonder how many people have presented a Contactless card on a long distance train from Paddington to Reading or vice versa today and been told it isn't valid. Is Contactless only valid on the 2Nxx / 2Pxx stopping services that run alongside the TfL Rail service? Is it valid on the faster 1Dxx / 1Pxx services that run fast from Paddington to Maidenhead and Twyford? Is the issue simply that HSS train managers don't have Contactless readers or platforms 2 to 5 at Paddington aren't enabled for it?

This is answered in the paragraph you missed out:

To support TfL Rail’s payment option, we are also offering Contactless pay as you go at all stations on the direct line between London Paddington and Reading.

What I do find confusing is their calling the TfL website the TfL Rail website.

To find out more about Contactless visit the TfL Rail website here.

JonathanH · 2 Jan 2020

MikeWh said:
This is answered in the paragraph you missed out:

To support TfL Rail’s payment option, we are also offering Contactless pay as you go at all stations on the direct line between London Paddington and Reading.

Click to expand...

Why write local stopping in this sentence then?

TfL Rail is now accepting Contactless pay as you go on its local stopping services from London Paddington to Reading.

matt_world2004 · 2 Jan 2020

JonathanH said:
Why write local stopping in this sentence then?

Probably to distinguish it from TfL rail east where it accepts both contactless and oyster.

JonathanH · 2 Jan 2020

matt_world2004 said:
Probably to distinguish it from TfL rail east where it accepts both contactless and oyster.

Oh, sorry. I have misread TfL Rail for GWR - thinking that Contactless was only available on local services rather than all services over the line between Reading and Paddington - makes more sense now.

mattdickinson · 2 Jan 2020

The platforms 2-5 gateline at Paddington has now been upgraded to accept Oyster and contactless cards.

JonathanH · 2 Jan 2020

mattdickinson said:
The platforms 2-5 gateline at Paddington has now been upgraded to accept Oyster and contactless cards.

What about GWR arrivals in platform 6? Are passengers directed through the platform 2-5 gateline?

matt_world2004 · 4 Jan 2020

The daily fare cap from Paddington to reading is £55.90 peak and £26.00 off peak

MikeWh · 4 Jan 2020

JonathanH said:
What about GWR arrivals in platform 6? Are passengers directed through the platform 2-5 gateline?

Yes. TfL tell me that staff will direct GWR passengers to the platform 2-5 gateline while ensuring HEx passengers use the existing 6-7 gateline.

matt_world2004 said:
The daily fare cap from Paddington to reading is £55.90 peak and £26.00 off peak

Those are the day travelcard fares from Reading. They will not be implimented as caps for a while, though customers who pay more than the appropriate figures will apparently be automatically refunded.

TfL Rail to Reading Fares

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