Bletchleyite
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They do, but unlike the Chinese they don't have any actual Pendolinos.
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Avanti West Coast - Three classes of travel to be introduced
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They do, but unlike the Chinese they don't have any actual Pendolinos.
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
The question being though, what would happen if full catering wasn't available in full first class due to unforeseen issues? They'd have the same service as premium economy with nothing recouped?
Kite159
Veteran Member
Passengers will be able to claim a refund for the difference between First & Premium Economy
But they can't now if no meal is available can they?
Sounds like this value class takes on the Izy pricing model somewhat where you get an inferior seat for a rock bottom price. They could even introduce non reserved advance fares!
I would almost say I would be very tempted to book value class but I find the shoulder width a bit narrow on the Pendolino, any passenger going past seems to rub it when I'm in an aisle seat.
I would almost say I would be very tempted to book value class but I find the shoulder width a bit narrow on the Pendolino, any passenger going past seems to rub it when I'm in an aisle seat.
greaterwest
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I don't think it really needs pointing out that the 3+2 photo is a hoax, however, for what it's worth, Avanti have confirmed it is fake.
https://twitter.com/AvantiWestCoast/status/1204489928995946499
https://twitter.com/AvantiWestCoast/status/1204489928995946499
@canzograz said:
@AvantiWestCoast said:
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Jozhua
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Value class would sell like hot cakes no doubt if it existed. Anyway all booking systems would have to be reworked to be able to sell a third passenger class!
Jozhua
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To be fair, probably!
If I had to take an older, slower train but it wasn't too overcrowded and had some toilet facilities I'd be happy to for a cheaper ticket price.
Scum class actually looks more comfortable than some trains out there, especially seating wise
Standard sounds better than economy though. Economy could have connotations of cheap associated with the word, whereas standard just sounds like 'the norm', rather than more or less than.
'Any customers for economy please make your way to zone 5 6 and 7'. Hardly has a positive sound to it.
'Any customers for economy please make your way to zone 5 6 and 7'. Hardly has a positive sound to it.
Journeyman
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Why? People want it. I travel regularly between Edinburgh and London, and if there's first class advances at decent prices, it's a no-brainer.
Indeed. There's a time and place for cheap and nasty but equally there's a place for speed and comfort.
Sighs of relief all round!
Wrong I'm afraid. If First Class was declassified and no food service was provided then that's the case but if it's simply no food available the passenger would receive at least a 25% discount code off an Advance Ticket
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gg1
Established Member
Not necessarily. Two of the classes could be bookable as normal with the 3rd available as an on train upgrade only.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
With the new class, that stance is unlikely to be defensible in Court. And First Class passengers are much more likely to have the readies to try a claim...
I just couldn't imagine a situation where standard was actually labelled economy. It would be a first for a train fleet in the UK wouldn't it? Perhaps they'd just label First and Premium Economy, and leave economy blank in the way current standard isn't labelled from the outside. I just can't see advising masses of passengers of where the economy accomodation is, being a good look imo.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think this is most likely, and interestingly is what VT did in the early days.
Spot on. If the catering is the only differential between the two classes non-provision will not and cannot be excused and will be actionable.
Applepie356
Member
This is just the start. I’m sure Cattle class is going to devolve into just grab rails and no seats eventually
And if I remember correctly there were some tickets that entitled you to real first or first lite, depending on which train you chose to travel. It was a bit of a botch really.
When Chris Green took over he binned the three classes as it was too complex to resource.
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The key difference, of course, is that the width of, say, an N700 is 3.36m, as opposed to 2.73m for a 390.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Exactly. I dislike 3+2 in all its forms (the middle seat is always nasty), but the 3+2 seating in Chinese and Japanese trains is as wide as 2+2 in UK trains, the vehicle is wider to fit it in.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Of course, I was simply illustrating that it's not unheard of in InterCity trains. Obviously it's going to be be far too cramped to do it in a Pendolino comfortably.
Indeed - wasn't intending to imply anything, just pointing it out for reference. And, of course, there is proven popularity of cheap services with 3+2 (well, often 3+2 or half 3+2) seating on InterCity services on the WCML anyway, thanks to LNWR.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though 350s (2.796m) are a fair bit wider than Pendolinos (2.73m) - 3+2 is only borderline wide enough in any UK stock, but 7.5cm is enough to make a difference, and in reality it's practically more than that because the 350 has near-vertical sidewalls, and the sidewalls themselves are each about 2-3cm thinner (compare windowsill width) so in reality that's well over an extra 10cm which is a huge difference - around an extra inch on each seat of 5.
So with the new 7 carriage trains to Liverpool, what do you think the breakdown would be?
1 F
1 PE
5 E
knowing First group, I wouldn’t expect much first class. Such a shame as I prefer an empty seat opposite me and there’s usually plenty of room. Such a difference from everyone cramped in Standard class
1 F
1 PE
5 E
knowing First group, I wouldn’t expect much first class. Such a shame as I prefer an empty seat opposite me and there’s usually plenty of room. Such a difference from everyone cramped in Standard class
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