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Election 2019 - promises

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Dave1987

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Not sure they'll make much progress with that approach any more......

As a few TOC's have found out recently, when you are up the creek and forgot to pack to the paddle, you need your staff onside. If you have created a feeling of hostility then they unlikely to be onside when you need them most. With the mess that is currently happening I would not envisage too much hostility.
 

Dave1987

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really!!!!!! thought Boris said he was going to make strikes on the railway illegal

No, they mooted the option of a minimum service provision during a strike. Considering the Tories have just won seats in some hugely working class areas I highly doubt they are going to introduce policies that stop strikes. When you have just said you are going to be a Government for the working classes, then immediately legislating to stop a section of the working class from having their legal right to withdraw their labour isn't going to look particularly good is it!
 

Jozhua

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can now wave goodbye to guards and say hello to doo in a big way

In an ideal world we could have DOO, it would genuinely increase the speed of many trains. Guards could probably do their jobs better too, checking tickets and the like.

Still I doubt this is a fight the tories or any government can win. More people are using the trains anyway, so the staffing cost will be spread over significantly more passengers than perhaps in the past! A 5 car TPE will be loads more efficient staff wise than two 185 services with no guards.
 

JamesT

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No, they mooted the option of a minimum service provision during a strike. Considering the Tories have just won seats in some hugely working class areas I highly doubt they are going to introduce policies that stop strikes. When you have just said you are going to be a Government for the working classes, then immediately legislating to stop a section of the working class from having their legal right to withdraw their labour isn't going to look particularly good is it!

I'd say that very much depends on how many working class people are commuters. If banning strikes wins over more people through the reduction in disruption they have getting to work, versus those they lose from seeing rights being infringed, the government may well calculate that it's worth it over all.
 

Robertj21a

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No, they mooted the option of a minimum service provision during a strike. Considering the Tories have just won seats in some hugely working class areas I highly doubt they are going to introduce policies that stop strikes. When you have just said you are going to be a Government for the working classes, then immediately legislating to stop a section of the working class from having their legal right to withdraw their labour isn't going to look particularly good is it!

I guess it will depend on how *reasonable* the general public view any future demands by Rail Unions - who may now be without some of their staunchest political supporters. If the RMT etc have any sense they will take this period as an opportunity to build bridges.
 

thedbdiboy

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The staff side hostility to management is a real issue that senior leaders in the industry are aware of but haven't yet seriously addressed. Management and unions/staff were always fraught in BR days but everyone was 'in' the railway and knew their opposites. That bond was broken when Government decided that they could auction an operation off every 5-10 years and expect all the staff to trust the next set of management when they had no say in that process.
However, the union management need to be a lot smarter than they currently are if they think they can rely on 'popular' support. Rail tends to be used by more affluent people - the very poor do not use trains much. The average person on squeezed wages and zero hours contracts sees rail workers as already on a relatively good deal (an exceptional deal for drivers) yet still wanting more by holding their lives to ransom. This is fertile territory for a Johnson government with a decent majority and the ability to play to the gallery to be populist by 'dealing' with the rail unions once and for all. Don't forget the miners, or the print workers - the lesson of history is that once your job is substantially obsolete (and I don't mean a second person on the train, I mean insisting that only a safety critical guard can safely open and shut the doors on a modern train in the 21st century), don't fight to the death to keep it or you you will eventually lose, big time, with lots of pain all round.
The big opportunity is with accessibility. Campaigning for a legal duty to ensure that staff provision to assist passengers is a mandatory requirement either on station or on train would be a far more effective way of guaranteeing jobs in a way that matches popular mood and society's needs. And because disability legislation already leads everyone almost inexorably to that requirement, there is much better chance of government accepting it.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I thought Mr Cash and the RMT wanted Brexit? They should be happy bunnies this morning surely?

I'm pretty sure they wanted nationalisation (and the promised end of DOO) more than Brexit.

The left wanted Brexit because they saw it as escaping EU competition and state support rules which dis-allow public ownership (which it doesn't - that's just a UK rule).
The EU rules do force competition, open access, and tendering of services, but does not prescribe ownership.
We'll have to see what sort of Brexit trade deal Boris does with the EU to know what constraints there might be on nationalisation and state support going forward.
 
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jtuk

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When you have just said you are going to be a Government for the working classes, then immediately legislating to stop a section of the working class from having their legal right to withdraw their labour isn't going to look particularly good is it!

You'll probably find most of whatever you'd define the working class are are not trade union members, have no interest in the trade union movement and find the vast majority of strikes ridiculous
 

irish_rail

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I think it's very likely we will see some big pay cuts for train drivers and other rail staff once the anti strike legislation is safely through. I'm at a loss to understand why so many train drivers apparently voted for Boris.
 

Clip

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I think it's very likely we will see some big pay cuts for train drivers and other rail staff once the anti strike legislation is safely through. I'm at a loss to understand why so many train drivers apparently voted for Boris.

Im not so sure about that - maybe for new entrants but others would just quit the industry and then the service would be properly up the swanny due to how long training takes
 

Goldfish62

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I guess it will depend on how *reasonable* the general public view any future demands by Rail Unions - who may now be without some of their staunchest political supporters. If the RMT etc have any sense they will take this period as an opportunity to build bridges.
The RMT NEC are too pig-headed to do that. They will always dream of their Great Socialist Revolution.
 

Mikey C

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I think it's very likely we will see some big pay cuts for train drivers and other rail staff once the anti strike legislation is safely through. I'm at a loss to understand why so many train drivers apparently voted for Boris.

As trains drivers have seen decent salary increases over the period of private ownership, why should that change now?

With the number of drivers needed increasing, they have good bargaining power, it's not as if you can get some cheap Romanians in to do their job.
 

Goldfish62

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As trains drivers have seen decent salary increases over the period of private ownership, why should that change now?

With the number of drivers needed increasing, they have good bargaining power, it's not as if you can get some cheap Romanians in to do their job.
Yes, as I understand it there's a shortage of train drivers so salaries need to remain attractive.
 

Goldfish62

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can now wave goodbye to guards and say hello to doo in a big way
We've had DOO in a big way in parts of the country for years. Apart from DCO on SWR I don't see any significant changes coming any time soon.
 

Mikey C

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It'll be interesting what the Conservatives do in the north now, seeing that they now have lots of newly won seats to defend in 5 years time
 

DynamicSpirit

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It'll be interesting what the Conservatives do in the north now, seeing that they now have lots of newly won seats to defend in 5 years time

I'm sure they'll be able to find some villages that need brand new motorways building to them :)
 

furnessvale

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I'm sure they'll be able to find some villages that need brand new motorways building to them :)
Given the investment in railways in the last few years, it is sad that this characterisation of a Tory government still exists, although I do note the smiley.
 

Master29

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Given the investment in railways in the last few years, it is sad that this characterisation of a Tory government still exists, although I do note the smiley.
They haven't exactly helped themselves though have they, and given that this investment was long overdue hardly cuts any cheese does it.
 

Drogba11CFC

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No, they mooted the option of a minimum service provision during a strike. Considering the Tories have just won seats in some hugely working class areas I highly doubt they are going to introduce policies that stop strikes. When you have just said you are going to be a Government for the working classes, then immediately legislating to stop a section of the working class from having their legal right to withdraw their labour isn't going to look particularly good is it!

Couldn't he make the railways an essential service a la the police?
 

markymark2000

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I know the election has now passed but I found an interesting Plaid Cymru policy. They wanted to move the TFW/Alstom depot from Chester into somewhere in North Wales.
 

Horizon22

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Yes, as I understand it there's a shortage of train drivers so salaries need to remain attractive.

Hundreds or even thousands are applying for any given vacancy at some TOCs so I'd say its more than attractive enough already. Some TOCs have shortages primarily due to poor resource and transition management.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I know the election has now passed but I found an interesting Plaid Cymru policy. They wanted to move the TFW/Alstom depot from Chester into somewhere in North Wales.

The new TfW fleet will be maintained at both Chester and Machynlleth.
Chester depot is all of 2 miles from the border and probably employs staff from North Wales anyway.
It's also the Wales & Borders franchise.
 

Dave1987

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Hundreds or even thousands are applying for any given vacancy at some TOCs so I'd say its more than attractive enough already. Some TOCs have shortages primarily due to poor resource and transition management.

Yes but if you say that the wage is far too generous, I wonder how many would not bother? The wage is what attracts so many. For a rail forum it really does surprise me how hostile people on here are to drivers.
 

Horizon22

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Yes but if you say that the wage is far too generous, I wonder how many would not bother? The wage is what attracts so many. For a rail forum it really does surprise me how hostile people on here are to drivers.

I'm saying yes its too generous, but not overly so. I think a small decrease you would still see a lot of applicants. It's not just the wage that makes so many want to be a driver.
 

43066

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I'm saying yes its too generous, but not overly so. I think a small decrease you would still see a lot of applicants. It's not just the wage that makes so many want to be a driver.

Too generous according to whom? You? :rolleyes:

You could advertise the job at any given salary, and you’d still get applicants. But not necessarily the right applicants.
 

Dave1987

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Too generous according to whom? You? :rolleyes:

You could advertise the job at any given salary, and you’d still get applicants. But not necessarily the right applicants.

Very much so! The standard of applicants is pretty remarkable nowadays who are attracted by the salary. What does the old saying say “pay peanuts, get monkeys”. Anyone who has been train cab knows that drivers are not overly paid. People who say drivers are overpaid have usually never been in a mainline cab.
 
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