malc-c
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If I remember the ink had a purple colour and a distinctive smell
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How did you know when freight trains were due before RealTime Trains?
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If I remember the ink had a purple colour and a distinctive smell
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Bevan Price
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Yes. Purple ink.
In later years, there were also documents that looked like black ink, but did not appear to have been commercially printed. I am not sure how they were produced - maybe some people had access to early Xerox photocopiers. (First produced in 1959, but probably not widely used in UK for another 5-10 years.)
malc-c
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I just remember having to run off the school newsletter one one of them - probably circa '69 - '71. Messy job if it all went wrong !
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Are we talking about Banda sheets here? My school was still using those in the early 1980s...
...and as for me trying to see freights at Newbury in the hour in town on the after-school shopping bus on a Friday, or when in town under exeat* on a Saturday, it was a question of just hoping they ran at the times they normally did!
*We had to fill in an "exeat form" a couple of days in advance for permission to leave the school premises for the shopping bus to town or to go anywhere at weekends.
That was David Maxey. I wonder if he’s still going?
No, he stopped writing for Rail at least 25 years ago. I have not forgotten his style!
As a teenage lad I must admit that his column did make me laugh.
Indeed, still used, as is TSID and TRJS (Signaller Enquiry), still one of the best programs used by the Railway, might well date back to the 70's ...but yet to be beaten in many respects.
As for the STN, still very much missed by staff, it's all very well having a PC, but nothing gives / gave as much info as the written STN
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Access to a TOPS computer gave you a "pipeline" enquiry , which showed everything coming your way ...including speclals. (ZQ D8 ?)
Course . working at Felixstowe in the early 1980's , we used to agree an inwards train plan on Friday for Saturday , only to find on arrival on Sat am , a whole tranche of inwards "control" specials -which could be very challenging to say the very least. Cryptic messages like "passed Gidea Park at 08xx )
On the other hand - arranging outwards "control" specials could be very easy -often a phone call to the critical train crew managers / local Control office etc. The variation on planned versus actual could be as much as 30%+ ......detailed routing would come almost on departure - e.g an extra FX - Trafford Park might be called as "via Stratford and NLL" , or even via "Aslockton - thence via Woodhead !"
I agree - the paper STN was always good - it told you what other areas were up to , I have kept a random number after all these years - and they are astounding as to how much detailed arrangements were made to keep traffic moving -
Course . working at Felixstowe in the early 1980's , we used to agree an inwards train plan on Friday for Saturday , only to find on arrival on Sat am , a whole tranche of inwards "control" specials -which could be very challenging to say the very least. Cryptic messages like "passed Gidea Park at 08xx )
On the other hand - arranging outwards "control" specials could be very easy -often a phone call to the critical train crew managers / local Control office etc. The variation on planned versus actual could be as much as 30%+ ......detailed routing would come almost on departure - e.g an extra FX - Trafford Park might be called as "via Stratford and NLL" , or even via "Aslockton - thence via Woodhead !"
I agree - the paper STN was always good - it told you what other areas were up to , I have kept a random number after all these years - and they are astounding as to how much detailed arrangements were made to keep traffic moving -
duffield
Established Member
Until I retired earlier this year, it was part or my job to support the underlying infrastructure for TOPS/TRUST i.e. TSID etc. I also set up the web interface infrastructure for TSIA, which sadly was never widely used (but is still used by a handful of people). If I'd just supported the rail systems I'd still be working but I had to support a load of finance related companies as well and that became unbearable so I took early retirement.
As far as I know TOPS/TRUST will keep on chugging away on the mainframe for a good few years yet. I miss having access though, particularly for the 'off booked route' reports that you can't get on RT trains.
Bandas were usually purple, but my school had other colours (which occasionally appeared in the Model Railway Club mag. - the master who produced it ISTR got into bother for using too many...).
Proper (Gestetner etc) stencil duplicators (cut on a typewriter with the ribbon removed) could be any colour of ink, but black was cheapest - they were certainly in use into the 90s (the parish I was responsible for upgraded to an electric one...) - but copyprinters became more cost-effective and easier to use.
Lineside SE
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I think the first Freightmaster timetable book published was 1997. There was another small book published before that called Freightfax by Michael Rhodes and Paul Shannon. Although these books were very useful you still had no way of knowing what was actually running on the day, it was was just a question of waiting around to see what turned up.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
For me, it was the bell codes from the adjacent signal box (that differed from the usual 3-1 or 4).
Other than that, it was just the excitement of seeing what turned up
Other than that, it was just the excitement of seeing what turned up
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MDB1images
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Local knowledge based on experience of freight flows seen l(some easier than others to suss out.
When working on freight especially if relieving mid route it was a case of phoning the signalmen and asking him to ring the messroom when he got whatever it was you was waiting for on his panel or to ring the train crew Supervisor(who'd put it over the messroom tanoy once it was in the area).
When working on freight especially if relieving mid route it was a case of phoning the signalmen and asking him to ring the messroom when he got whatever it was you was waiting for on his panel or to ring the train crew Supervisor(who'd put it over the messroom tanoy once it was in the area).
delt1c
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In my younger days standing on the platform, part of the joy was the unexpected, you didn’t know what was coming till it passed and usually were unaware of loco till you saw it. Those were the good days.
Used to go to the local station on the ECML and the supervisor would sometimes let us into his office to have quick look at big vdu screen which had 2 signal numbers for up trains and 3 for down trains telling you times trains passed and then you could work out what was about and roughly what time they would come. I’m talking 80s here. ECML then was great for locos on parcels, some passengers, sleepers and freight was very busy especially at night up until around 3am
muddythefish
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Living near the freight only Blackburn - Hellifield line in the 1960s which had about 30-40 trains a day (yes, really!) local spotters knew the times of the trains which ran pretty regularly and were rarely late. Of course there were special unscheduled freights as well but the that was the excitement of railways back then - you never knew what would turn up next both in terms of trains and motive power and the first we knew a train was on its way was the bells ringing in the nearby signal box, the clanking of the signals levers and the rattle of the wires as the signals were pulled out. It might sound cranky now but it was magical in its way and added to the fantastic atmosphere railways had in those days
d9009alycidon
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A lot of freight working was based on company requirements, I worked in Clydesdale Tubeworks at Mossend and we had a flow of tubes to our neighboring plant in Airdrie, transport department would be responsible for giving BR an estimate of how many wagonloads of tube would be required and BR provided the wagons and locomotives. At both ends were fairly large yards so there was a pool of wagons ready for loading/unloading and shunting was performed by the works loco. When a train was ready a call would go out and BR would send a loco from Motherwell to trip it to Imperial. I have absolutely no idea how the whole thing was controlled financially.
There were a lot of freights but not a lot of variety as I recall. Just a constant stream of MGRs back and forwards to the three nearby power stations. The Locos changed over time but tended to be in the main one sort. I recall 47s, then 56s and finally 66s over the years.
I much preferred the 1950/60s where a day at Bletchley would produce over a 100 Locos of many different classes.
Sadly I just missed the 60’s but remember the late 70’s just.
Knottingley was always 47’s and 56’s when I was younger with an occasional smattering of other classes such as 37’s on oil trains. Eventually 58’s and 60’s joined the 56’s before the advent of the National Power 59’s and then the inevitable takeover of 66’s.
Now Knottingley shed is full of mk2 coaches. Sad indeed.
On the footbridge at Taunton I was shown by an elder lad how to prepare in advance from the public timetable a list of all trains due, separate pages for Down and Up. Clever interpolation of nonstops (not many then), and when "spotting", not only the loco number but time, headcode, etc, which in the evening got used to update (neatly) the sheet we had gone along with for future use, and to note how late, next working of locals, and such like.
If only we had Excel then!
Only just seen this thread. Most of my spotting was carried out in the 1970's. Others have mentioned Wtt's and during that time BR had Collectors Corner near Euston and would sell off old WTT's and as times did not change much a six month old one would usually be of some use.
Also most towns of any size would have either a railway club or model railway group amoung whose membership you would find a railwayman or two. These groups night need once or twice a week and I don't think many special workings avoided being on the jungle telegraph that way.
Also most towns of any size would have either a railway club or model railway group amoung whose membership you would find a railwayman or two. These groups night need once or twice a week and I don't think many special workings avoided being on the jungle telegraph that way.
james60059
Member
For me, back in the early 1990's, it was a case of vegging Tile Hill, in Coventry. Just waiting to see what turned up, of course it was mostly loco-hauled passenger services what with Class 43's, 47's, 86's, 87's and 90's (Pendo's and Voyagers were still a decade away at least) with local stoppers Class 310's (I think they were anyway).
Heading into early 2000's, the Yahoo gen groups became invaluable, especially with rare, one off moves especially, although I did notice there was some elitism amongst the gen groups only allowing some people on and not others.
Nowadays, although I do use RTT, I do also still use the Yahoo messaging services as well as Freightmaster, plus the maps are invaluable too.
Heading into early 2000's, the Yahoo gen groups became invaluable, especially with rare, one off moves especially, although I did notice there was some elitism amongst the gen groups only allowing some people on and not others.
Nowadays, although I do use RTT, I do also still use the Yahoo messaging services as well as Freightmaster, plus the maps are invaluable too.
Mcr Warrior
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Presumably the only passenger train workings for quite some time after c. September 1962 would have been either a Railtours special or an occasional diverted WCML service train routed via the Settle & Carlisle.
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