TFW Cuts at Ruabon, Chirk, Gobowen

Baxenden Bank · 9 Dec 2019

Phil from Mon said:
Lots of people need to do Bangor (and Llandudno Jct) to Cardiff and return, and when (if) the service does accelerate then a lot of those who currently drive will hopefully switch to the train.

Perhaps numerically replacing those passengers LOST from the train due to this mess of a timetable.

Is anyone actually managing train services in Wales or do they just bumble along?

A similar situation to the 'extra trains for the Heart of Wales' which generally messed up commuters into Shrewsbury by re-timing their train. Or the promised 'hourly service to Aberystwyth' which remains nothing of the sort, although it will be so on Sundays very soon.

The new printed timetable pfs are riddled with errors too, never mind the omitted buses the subject of this thread. Can anyone explain the following:

MX Service runs Mondays to Fridays only
(guide 3, page 12)
or

MX Service runs Mondays to Fridays only
(Guide 3, page 22)

or even better:
MO Service runs Mondays only
MX Service runs Mondays to Fridays only
(Guide 3, adjacent notes on page 23)

There are plenty of others. For a decent fee I will proof check them for TfW because clearly nobody else is doing the job.

RailUK Forums

Baxenden Bank · 9 Dec 2019

Phil from Mon said:
Don’t think you have done the evening trip up from Cardiff very often if you think that is the case. I’ve not once seen an AM in it, and leadings have been full or nearly full for months.

I essentially gave up over a decade ago, having been regularly skip-stopped whilst waiting at Church Stretton. Then, having waited at Church Stretton for the next service, not having a connection onwards to Crewe, thus making it a very long trip home. I re-acquainted myself with Caer Caradoc and the Long Mynd this year with no problems thus far.

option · 9 Dec 2019

Phil from Mon said:
Lots of people need to do Bangor (and Llandudno Jct) to Cardiff and return, and when (if) the service does accelerate then a lot of those who currently drive will hopefully switch to the train.

Wha...????

It's a 4hr+ drive, or 4hr+ by train.

Who are these "lots of people" doing a return journey that takes at least as long as a working day?

Phil from Mon · 9 Dec 2019

option said:
Wha...????

It's a 4hr+ drive, or 4hr+ by train.

Who are these "lots of people" doing a return journey that takes at least as long as a working day?

They tend to stay overnight, not do the return trip in a day which is a killer by train and even worse driving, especially at this time of year. Personally I think anyone driving to Cardiff from up here needs their head examined, but plenty of NHS people that I know, also some Welsh Govt staff from Llandudno Junction, university staff from Bangor and Wrexham will drive, especially if in a group. I’m on a few stakeholder groups that tend to meet in Cardiff, and there are also quite a few from PenLlyn and Meirionnydd who will drive direct rather than drive to Bangor or Shrewsbury and take the train from there.

Andrew*Debbie · 10 Dec 2019

option said:
Who are these "lots of people" doing a return journey that takes at least as long as a working day?

On the subsidised air link

Parallel · 10 Dec 2019

I don’t think a reduced service at these stations is a good thing if it goes ahead. They are get more or less a standard hourly service now and despite not having a massive exit/entry figures, they’re still relatively well used.

I’m one of probably a few that thinks direct Holyhead to Cardiff trains are a good thing but I think they’ve got the expresses wrong, surely the express should be the Manchester service.

In any case, it will be less of a problem in the future when Shrewsbury and Liverpool are connected by a direct train. No stock available in the mean time but an hourly Shrewsbury-Wrexham/Chester (or even Bidston) all stops service would be ideal to pick up Gobowen, Chirk and Ruabon if the Holyhead trains become express services.

krus_aragon · 10 Dec 2019

Parallel said:
I’m one of probably a few that thinks direct Holyhead to Cardiff trains are a good thing but I think they’ve got the expresses wrong, surely the express should be the Manchester service.

As I read the tea leaves, the Manchester service will be sped up slightly, with the Llandudno-Liverpool being the stopper instead.

(The Franchise ITT listed an aspiration for speeding up Manchester services. The service requirements for 2022 have a doubling of Shotton calls - indicating that two of the three tph will call - but no change at Abergele, so only the Liverpool stopper will be calling there.)

Parallel · 10 Dec 2019

krus_aragon said:
As I read the tea leaves, the Manchester service will be sped up slightly, with the Llandudno-Liverpool being the stopper instead.

Sorry, I meant the South Wales - Manchester service, though I agree about the North Wales Coast, I guess it will all become clear once the stock comes available to sort out the NW coast services.

Andrew*Debbie · 11 Dec 2019

Prioritising the Holyhead - Cardiff express service over rush hour local is causing no end of grief for staff here at work that rely on the train to get home. I'm not sure how many but they are left with no good alternative.

Baxenden Bank · 13 Dec 2019

A timetable supplement has been added to the timetables section of the TfW website. It includes the two bus services on the Shrewsbury to Chester line, also one southbound from Shrewsbury to Ludlow in the afternoon.

Nothing to fill the two hour gap southbound from Chester in the afternoon though. Does the franchise require an hourly service (or close thereto eg no more than 75 minute gaps between trains).

nedchester · 14 Dec 2019

Baxenden Bank said:
A timetable supplement has been added to the timetables section of the TfW website. It includes the two bus services on the Shrewsbury to Chester line, also one southbound from Shrewsbury to Ludlow in the afternoon.

Nothing to fill the two hour gap southbound from Chester in the afternoon though. Does the franchise require an hourly service (or close thereto eg no more than 75 minute gaps between trains).

No just a requirement to run a certain number of trains with a certain time frame.

158841 · 14 Dec 2019

I think the most pointless part of this exercise is that the return diagram (1151 ex Holyhead) then runs 20 minutes in front of the Birmingham International service by the time it gets to Wrexham and calls all stops back!!??
So departures from Gobowen become very weird!
1253 to Llanelli
1351 to Cardiff
1412 to Birmingham Int

nedchester · 14 Dec 2019

158841 said:
I think the most pointless part of this exercise is that the return diagram (1151 ex Holyhead) then runs 20 minutes in front of the Birmingham International service by the time it gets to Wrexham and calls all stops back!!??
So departures from Gobowen become very weird!
1253 to Llanelli
1351 to Cardiff
1412 to Birmingham Int

The reason for running early is so the loco hauled set can get to Cardiff to work the 17:16 WAG back to Holyhead (once the three leg diagram starts)

PHILIPE · 14 Dec 2019

158841 said:
I think the most pointless part of this exercise is that the return diagram (1151 ex Holyhead) then runs 20 minutes in front of the Birmingham International service by the time it gets to Wrexham and calls all stops back!!??
So departures from Gobowen become very weird!
1253 to Llanelli
1351 to Cardiff
1412 to Birmingham Int

Hope you don't mind me mentioning it but, unfortunately, people get confused with what a diagram is. The 1151 ex Holyhead is not a diagram but a train service. It is part of a diagram which is the pre-planned programme of a days work of a unit which is compatible with the Timetable and set in stone for the period of a Timetable. They can be amended under special arrangements to accommodate variations due to Engineering Work or any other events which cause the breakdown of the diagram. Please don't think I'm being pedantic but I was merely trying to clear up any confusion.

158841 · 14 Dec 2019

nedchester said:
The reason for running early is so the loco hauled set can get to Cardiff to work the 17:16 WAG back to Holyhead (once the three leg diagram starts)

That makes sense. So is this running locohauled from Monday? Bit odd it does RA Shrewsbury - Wrexham on the down but all stops Wrexham - Shrewsbury on the up journey?

nedchester · 14 Dec 2019

158841 said:
That makes sense. So is this running locohauled from Monday? Bit odd it does RA Shrewsbury - Wrexham on the down but all stops Wrexham - Shrewsbury on the up journey?

Apparently from Monday the loco hauled diagrams are the current WAG starting at HHD. The 07:02 is hauled but just works to Holyhead and back.

The reason for the missed stops on the is to keep the journey time down and also to ensure that the train gets off the single line at Rossett before the next southbound. I think it’s 2 mins!

PHILIPE · 14 Dec 2019

158841 said:
That makes sense. So is this running locohauled from Monday? Bit odd it does RA Shrewsbury - Wrexham on the down but all stops Wrexham - Shrewsbury on the up journey?

I believe it will be unit/s on Monday as there are not enough Mark IIIs available. The Mark IV that was intended to work on the Manchester will not be available so the MarkIII set will have to stay there. I won't quote a link because it is covered across several threads on the Forum, Hopefully everything will be in position by May 2020

craigybagel · 15 Dec 2019

PHILIPE said:
I believe it will be unit/s on Monday as there are not enough Mark IIIs available. The Mark IV that was intended to work on the Manchester will not be available so the MarkIII set will have to stay there. I won't quote a link because it is covered across several threads on the Forum, Hopefully everything will be in position by May 2020

Correct. From Monday everything will be as it is now, the loco diagrams will not be changing until the MKIVs enter service.

Andrew*Debbie · 16 Dec 2019

Baxenden Bank said:
A timetable supplement has been added to the timetables section of the TfW website. It includes the two bus services on the Shrewsbury to Chester line, also one southbound from Shrewsbury to Ludlow in the afternoon.

Nothing to fill the two hour gap southbound from Chester in the afternoon though. Does the franchise require an hourly service (or close thereto eg no more than 75 minute gaps between trains).

Nothing to fill the new gap in North Wales either. Anyone commuting home from Bangor to Colwyn Bay or Rhyl has to wait an hour at Llandudno Junction for a connecting train.

krus_aragon · 16 Dec 2019

Andrew*Debbie said:
Nothing to fill the new gap in North Wales either. Anyone commuting home from Bangor to Colwyn Bay or Rhyl has to wait an hour at Llandudno Junction for a connecting train.

Yep, i'm in that category. Still commuting by car, waiting on the new rolling stock and timeable recast...

PHILIPE · 14 Jan 2020

It appears that from this week and until the May Timetable the 0702 Cardiff to Holyhead has had the stops re-instated under VAR arrangements and leaving Shrewsbury 3 minutes earlier just by a little tweaking between Ludlow and Shrewsbury. This came to light following a Tweeter querying the difference in the Shrewsbury time as TFW just updated the systems but without telling anybody apart from local bodies perhaps.

Baxenden Bank · 14 Jan 2020

The additional stops were also showing (as VAR or STP) over the Christmas period, but I hadn't looked since then. Still a 90 minute gap between trains though. The two hour afternoon gap in southbound services remains.

Still showing the timetable supplement (for the replacement buses) on the TfW website.

Who has the use of the TfW brain cell today?

PHILIPE · 14 Jan 2020

Baxenden Bank said:
The additional stops were also showing (as VAR or STP) over the Christmas period, but I hadn't looked since then. Still a 90 minute gap between trains though. The two hour afternoon gap in southbound services remains.

Still showing the timetable supplement (for the replacement buses) on the TfW website.

Who has the use of the TfW brain cell today?

It was timed accordingly in timings for the Mark IVs but as they will not be working on the route until May, at least, the tweaks were achieved by amending to DMU timings

Y Ddraig Coch · 14 Jan 2020

krus_aragon said:
Yep, i'm in that category. Still commuting by car, waiting on the new rolling stock and timeable recast...

An almost two hour gap at peak time is a bit ludicrous. I just took a look at Bangor to Colwyn Bay and NRE shows you can leave at 16.17 (too early for anyone working normal hours) or wait until 18.10 , over an hour after most people finish, and it involves a change at the junction.

If you change the journey at that time of day to Bangor to Abergele the wait is so long NRE is actually suggesting (although not offering a ticket) going from Bangor all the way to Chester and coming back form Chester to Abergele quicker than waiting for the next train. A 90 odd mile round trip for a 30 mile direct trip.

krus_aragon · 6 Feb 2020

Y Ddraig Coch said:
An almost two hour gap at peak time is a bit ludicrous. I just took a look at Bangor to Colwyn Bay and NRE shows you can leave at 16.17 (too early for anyone working normal hours) or wait until 18.10 , over an hour after most people finish, and it involves a change at the junction.

If you change the journey at that time of day to Bangor to Abergele the wait is so long NRE is actually suggesting (although not offering a ticket) going from Bangor all the way to Chester and coming back form Chester to Abergele quicker than waiting for the next train. A 90 odd mile round trip for a 30 mile direct trip.

Bangor University's Students' Union have been publicising a Welsh Assembly petition, which makes direct reference to the lack of stops on the 1718 from Bangor. Curiously it is titled "Reverse the cuts to commuter train services in North East Wales", despite Bangor being most definitely North-West Wales. (Yes, the stations that are being missed out are in the North-East, but from the title, I expected the petition to be about the Wrexham-Chester changes instead.)

The petition can be found at https://www.assembly.wales/en/gethome/e-petitions/Pages/petitiondetail.aspx?PetitionID=1693, and closes on the 29th of February.

Andrew*Debbie · 7 Feb 2020

Thank you for promoting the petition. I'd already signed it but others might not know about it. Several people here at work have lost their train home. They are faced with long journies home or the expense of buying and running a car.

TFW Cuts at Ruabon, Chirk, Gobowen

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