What's Happening to The 'Pretendolino' rake?

sprinterguy · 9 May 2019

NoMorePacers said:
Why would this happen?

The Office of Road and Rail are getting increasingly jittery about opening droplight windows in the light of two fatal accidents on Gatwick Express and GWR in recent years. Bars on windows appears to be their favoured solution though, rather than all out banning of such stock, though it's uncertain how feasible their application to mark 3s might be.

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supervc-10 · 9 May 2019

I feel that on charter/heritage trains, bars across the windows could be enough. Locking the windows 'up' could also work, as Mk.1s and Mk.2s used on those trains have opening regular windows in the saloons/compartments. Adding interior door handles probably isn't necessary as there can be staff at the stations, after all, they're not exactly commuter trains. Regular passenger trains with regular passengers, it's a safety hazard. I wish it wasn't, but unfortunately a few idiots ruin things for the rest of us! I've great memories of sitting on my bag in the vestibule of GWR HSTs in the summer with the window down running through beautiful countryside. Not sticking my head of out it at 125mph though!

38Cto15E · 9 May 2019

VC You mention having the door window down on a HST, I am old enough and lucky enough to remember going over the water troughs in steam days, it was great fun until you were in the first coach and the tender overflowed from the inside, bathtime.

Bletchleyite · 9 May 2019

supervc-10 said:
I feel that on charter/heritage trains, bars across the windows could be enough. Locking the windows 'up' could also work, as Mk.1s and Mk.2s used on those trains have opening regular windows in the saloons/compartments. Adding interior door handles probably isn't necessary as there can be staff at the stations, after all, they're not exactly commuter trains. Regular passenger trains with regular passengers, it's a safety hazard. I wish it wasn't, but unfortunately a few idiots ruin things for the rest of us! I've great memories of sitting on my bag in the vestibule of GWR HSTs in the summer with the window down running through beautiful countryside. Not sticking my head of out it at 125mph though!

If the windows were sealed, there would be no means of opening from the inside which would be illegal, since Quintinshill it has been illegal to lock passengers in trains. So you'd have to fit an emergency release at least.

Oddly the Ffestiniog Railway seems to have an exception to this, which I *really* do not like, though with single-glazed windows it'd at least be reasonably easy to kick them out. It is due to tight clearances, but really they should be required to fit a proper locking mechanism with emergency releases.

Aictos · 9 May 2019

Gus said:
VC You mention having the door window down on a HST, I am old enough and lucky enough to remember going over the water troughs in steam days, it was great fun until you were in the first coach and the tender overflowed from the inside, bathtime.

I bet that was exhilarating!

supervc-10 · 9 May 2019

Gus said:
VC You mention having the door window down on a HST, I am old enough and lucky enough to remember going over the water troughs in steam days, it was great fun until you were in the first coach and the tender overflowed from the inside, bathtime.

That would have been amazing, especially on a hot summer's day.

Bletchleyite said:
If the windows were sealed, there would be no means of opening from the inside which would be illegal, since Quintinshill it has been illegal to lock passengers in trains. So you'd have to fit an emergency release at least.

Oddly the Ffestiniog Railway seems to have an exception to this, which I *really* do not like, though with single-glazed windows it'd at least be reasonably easy to kick them out. It is due to tight clearances, but really they should be required to fit a proper locking mechanism with emergency releases.

Do they not already have emergency releases? It's a while since I've been on a Mk.3, but I'm sure I remember emergency release things, and I just assumed older stock would have had to have been fitted with something similar. Isn't it part of the central door locking? I thought all trains operating on the main line had to have central door locking now.

Bletchleyite · 9 May 2019

supervc-10 said:
Do they not already have emergency releases? It's a while since I've been on a Mk.3, but I'm sure I remember emergency release things, and I just assumed older stock would have had to have been fitted with something similar. Isn't it part of the central door locking? I thought all trains operating on the main line had to have central door locking now.

Emergency releases release the CDL, they do not open the door. And no, some Mk1s are not fitted; they are required to have stewards instead, but they too couldn't open from the inside if this was implemented.

Lockwood · 13 May 2019

I'm sure I've been on mk1 derived stock with internal handles. Pinch type ones that sometimes needed a lot of force to open.

I can't remember for sure, but I think on those the window would only drop a few inches.

Bletchleyite · 13 May 2019

Lockwood said:
I'm sure I've been on mk1 derived stock with internal handles. Pinch type ones that sometimes needed a lot of force to open.

Yes, there were awkward ones on some Mk1 DMUs and EMUs. I don't think I've ever been quite so scared on a train as when I saw a kid go up and start fiddling with one...

I can't remember for sure, but I think on those the window would only drop a few inches.

On the Class 101s which were so fitted the droplights would still open fully, and those little handles were so awkward that most people leant out and opened from the outside.

yorksrob · 13 May 2019

Lockwood said:
I'm sure I've been on mk1 derived stock with internal handles. Pinch type ones that sometimes needed a lot of force to open.

I can't remember for sure, but I think on those the window would only drop a few inches.

These were common on suburban/high density stock.

On some the window only went down a short way, but others opened fully (I sometimes opened these from the outside for ease).

Bletchleyite · 13 May 2019

yorksrob said:
These were common on suburban/high density stock.

On some the window only went down a short way, but others opened fully (I sometimes opened these from the outside for ease).

On things like VEPs they were easier to open from a seated position on the adjacent seat. On 101s which had vestibules they were incredibly awkward because they were so low down but, as noted in my previous post, at an ideal height for a toddler to fiddle with.

yorksrob · 13 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
On things like VEPs they were easier to open from a seated position on the adjacent seat. On 101s which had vestibules they were incredibly awkward because they were so low down but, as noted in my previous post, at an ideal height for a toddler to fiddle with.

I only really used the Southern units (and 308's). I think a toddler would have had difficulty opening them given how stiff they were.

gimmea50anyday · 14 May 2019

VEP and EPB stock certainly had internal door opening catches. They were of a pinch type as YorksRob mentions and were a bugger to operate unless you were sat in a certain seat. Clearances on some routes required window bars on some VEP and EPB, otherwise the window only opened so far making internal handles essential. I dont recall seeing them on the hastings line CEPs or on CIG but the HAPs (and derivatives) had them too. If you look on the doors of this video of the project commuter unit you can see the internal handles

https://www.google.com/search?q=ima...oECAwQAQ&biw=360&bih=520#imgrc=H7coSMAof1mJjM

yorksrob · 14 May 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
VEP and EPB stock certainly had internal door opening catches. They were of a pinch type as YorksRob mentions and were a bugger to operate unless you were sat in a certain seat. Clearances on some routes required window bars on some VEP and EPB, otherwise the window only opened so far making internal handles essential. I dont recall seeing them on the hastings line CEPs or on CIG but the HAPs (and derivatives) had them too. If you look on the doors of this video of the project commuter unit you can see the internal handles

https://www.google.com/search?q=ima...oECAwQAQ&biw=360&bih=520#imgrc=H7coSMAof1mJjM

The CIG's and CEP's definitely didn't have them and were "stick your hand out the window" operation.

8J · 12 Dec 2019

Friend of mine has just taken a picture of part of the "Pretendolino" set leaving Crewe. Any ideas where it is going?

8J · 12 Dec 2019

Update: he is pretty sure it is this.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O69253/2019-12-12/detailed

Any idea why it is heading to Leicester is my next question.

Roast Veg · 12 Dec 2019

If it's traveling with a DVT, then it might be paired with one of the europhoenix 91s there for OLE testing.

Merle Haggard · 15 Dec 2019

It is currently stabled at Leicester on the Up side just North of the Diesel Depot.
At the North end of the rake is a Mk3 kitchen buffet in immaculate BR blue and grey and another Mk3 in the original (mainly light grey) Mk3/HST livery. Presumably, these 2 are those owned by the HST125 Preservation group.
It is puzzling; if the Pretendo is intended as a load for the 91s it seems odd that a preservation group would want their coaches to be subject of wear and tear as well, but (because of the location, near to the 91s) it does seem likely.

43096 · 15 Dec 2019

Merle Haggard said:
At the North end of the rake is a Mk3 kitchen buffet in immaculate BR blue and grey and another Mk3 in the original (mainly light grey) Mk3/HST livery. Presumably, these 2 are those owned by the HST125 Preservation group.

No, only one of those two is owned by 125 Group.

Merle Haggard · 15 Dec 2019

43096 said:
No, only one of those two is owned by 125 Group.

I stand corrected but are they both 'preserved'?

43096 · 15 Dec 2019

Merle Haggard said:
I stand corrected but are they both 'preserved'?

No, only one is.

Merle Haggard · 15 Dec 2019

43096 said:
No, only one is.

Crikey, the suspense...

fgwrich · 15 Dec 2019

Buffet Vehicle is Mk3 RFM 10202 if anyone is interested.

Merle Haggard · 15 Dec 2019

fgwrich said:
Buffet Vehicle is Mk3 RFM 10202 if anyone is interested.

Yes, ex 40504 and owned by the HST125 group.

fgwrich · 16 Dec 2019

*125 Group.

While most of the Mk3s from WB64 look set to be used by DATS (the same operator as former 125 Group Mk3 11074 and currently being used between Didcot and Cardiff), two more former ‘Pretendolino’ vehicles have found new homes today with the Crewe Diesel Preservation Group taking two former ScotRail Mk3s on.

As posted to their Facebook page:

CDPG are pleased to announce that they have secured two Mk3 coaches for preservation, FO 11007 and TSO 12011.
Both coaches are original ex E&G push pull Mk3’s, this it what made them stand out as candidates for preservation alongside 47712 and 9711. Both carriages latterly ran in Virgin Trains “Pretendalino” rake WB64.

alexl92 · 16 Dec 2019

59CosG95 said:
Accessibility issues would have been another factor, of that I'm 95% certain.
DVT 82126 has since been acquired by DRS and is stored at Loram's works in Derby.

What do DRS want with a MK3 DVT? AFAIK they sold all their MK3 coaches some time ago.

DBS92042 said:
From Google Maps images, it looks like 82126 is stored at MoD Longtown along with DRS's other 37s and 57s

Don't rely on Google maps images; they can be up to 3 years old!

What's Happening to The 'Pretendolino' rake?

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