Anyone here ever been stranded due to problems with the last bus?

175mph · 15 Dec 2019

It has happened to me before, but the worst that happened was a half hour walk from a 24 hour supermarket back home again.

But has anyone here ever been in a situation where they, for example, intended to get the last bus back from one town or city to their home town or city late in the evening, from the bus station, stand waiting at the appropriate stand their bus departs from but it never turns up and because the enquires office is closed until the morning, the only people they can ask about it are the other drivers nearby who cannot help in any way?

Or the bus turns up, but halfway home, out in a rural setting, the bus breaks down and the driver simply says you'll have to make arrangements to make your own way home ie a taxi?

When I've used the last bus of the evening from Hull to Scunthorpe, the driver once said because it's the last one, if it breaks down, arrangements would be made to get another one out to get everyone back, there's no way they would leave everyone stranded, but I know that each company or opco's policy can vary wildly.

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AlbertBeale · 16 Dec 2019

175mph said:
It has happened to me before, but the worst that happened was a half hour walk from a 24 hour supermarket back home again.

But has anyone here ever been in a situation where they, for example, intended to get the last bus back from one town or city to their home town or city late in the evening, from the bus station, stand waiting at the appropriate stand their bus departs from but it never turns up and because the enquires office is closed until the morning, the only people they can ask about it are the other drivers nearby who cannot help in any way?

Or the bus turns up, but halfway home, out in a rural setting, the bus breaks down and the driver simply says you'll have to make arrangements to make your own way home ie a taxi?

When I've used the last bus of the evening from Hull to Scunthorpe, the driver once said because it's the last one, if it breaks down, arrangements would be made to get another one out to get everyone back, there's no way they would leave everyone stranded, but I know that each company or opco's policy can vary wildly.

It's happened to me occasionally in London - years back before the big expansion of night bus services (which was when - 1980s/90s?). An hour or two's walk across town was sometimes the price of a night out... But I think it was more often because I was too late for the bus than because the last bus failed to run (though that was known to happen too).

NorthOxonian · 16 Dec 2019

It happened to me once - I'd been at the football and needed to get home from Chippenham. Waited at the bus stop for ages, but the bus that I needed didn't turn up. I could have got a later service, but I'd have missed my connection at Swindon. Luckily a friend I had there let me sleep on his sofa.

Were it not for an incredibly considerate driver on my route pulling out of Aylesbury bus station, it could have been twice - I'd have had to get a bus to High Wycombe and then a train home (with associated cost). He left about 2 minutes before he was timetabled to.

cnjb8 · 16 Dec 2019

The Centrebus 19 from Nottingham to Melton is always tough on a Forest matchday as it finishes very early and the Tempos are prone to break down. The only alternative is an expensive taxi or to get a train from Nottingham to leicester and the Leicester to Melton

175mph · 16 Dec 2019

cnjb8 said:
The Centrebus 19 from Nottingham to Melton is always tough on a Forest matchday as it finishes very early and the Tempos are prone to break down. The only alternative is an expensive taxi or to get a train from Nottingham to leicester and the Leicester to Melton

Have you ever been on the last one when when it actually broke down?

Bletchleyite · 16 Dec 2019

There was for many years a problem with the last run of my former local route in MK, what was the 26E, which was a very slackly timed cross city route whose last journey (2325 I think) often used to actually leave central Milton Keynes as early as 2315, I think I saw 2310 once. This happened with several operators, and as it was a tendered route always got reported to the Council but never got fixed...until the day GPS tracking started, then all of a sudden it started running on time. Funny, that.

There was similarly a problem with cutting out sections of route (and if challenged the drivers shrugged and didn't see a problem with it - they didn't even get aggressive or anything). That similarly stopped the day GPS tracking was introduced.

And some drivers say it isn't needed...

FWIW, yes, that did on more than one occasion result in a 45 minute walk or a taxi.

jon0844 · 16 Dec 2019

Yes, tracking certainly did magically fix a lot of issues that were often considered to be merely my imagination (with bus companies insisting their buses did run correctly and it must be my fault, like I blinked and missed it or I lied).

I hated waiting for the last bus as if it doesn't run (or a driver ran early, cut out the latter part of the route) you're totally stuffed. Bus stops don't have help points to get a taxi organised for you.

175mph · 16 Dec 2019

jon0844 said:
Yes, tracking certainly did magically fix a lot of issues that were often considered to be merely my imagination (with bus companies insisting their buses did run correctly and it must be my fault, like I blinked and missed it or I lied).

I hated waiting for the last bus as if it doesn't run (or a driver ran early, cut out the latter part of the route) you're totally stuffed. Bus stops don't have help points to get a taxi organised for you.

Are there any countries that do have that kind of system, ie Netherlands or Germany?

jon0844 · 16 Dec 2019

175mph said:
Are there any countries that do have that kind of system, ie Netherlands or Germany?

The most we'll have at some places (in the UK), although seemingly being phased out now everyone has a smartphone, are information kiosks. They don't AFAIK allow any direct communication with anyone - just to check times, local news, weather and maybe even print timetables.

You'd think the simplest solution is a National Rail Enquiries service for buses where you can call up 24/7 to get information and assistance. Rather than now where you call the local bus company and even in the day there's no guarantee of an answer, but after 7-9pm chances are it won't be open at all.

AlbertBeale · 16 Dec 2019

jon0844 said:
The most we'll have at some places (in the UK), although seemingly being phased out now everyone has a smartphone, are information kiosks. They don't AFAIK allow any direct communication with anyone - just to check times, local news, weather and maybe even print timetables.

You'd think the simplest solution is a National Rail Enquiries service for buses where you can call up 24/7 to get information and assistance. Rather than now where you call the local bus company and even in the day there's no guarantee of an answer, but after 7-9pm chances are it won't be open at all.

The fragmentation/deregulation of bus services was a wondrous thing...

Bletchleyite · 16 Dec 2019

175mph said:
Are there any countries that do have that kind of system, ie Netherlands or Germany?

No, or not that I've seen. Mostly they just take the better option of actually funding and taking the operation of the service seriously[1], something which almost no UK bus company seems to actually be good at.

[1] Including, for instance, having Control staffed for the full period of service, and them not naffing off home at 5pm like a lot of small bus companies do, including the worst offender on the route I noted above.

Bletchleyite · 16 Dec 2019

jon0844 said:
The most we'll have at some places (in the UK), although seemingly being phased out now everyone has a smartphone, are information kiosks. They don't AFAIK allow any direct communication with anyone - just to check times, local news, weather and maybe even print timetables.

Just use Google Maps, it'll tell you all that and more including most UK cities' real time info now too.

The only real cause to phone a bus company is to complain - perhaps all that is needed is legislation requiring the bus company to reimburse the cost of a taxi against a receipt in the event that the non-operation of a service to any part of its route, regardless of reason outside of "force majeure"[1] or road closure, caused the passenger to be delayed for more than say one hour for a short journey and two hours for a longer one.

Early operation at a timing point given on the registration (even by one minute) should count as non-operation, and the passenger should be believed unless the company can provide verifiable GPS evidence that the journey operated as timetabled. (This would force smaller companies to add GPS tracking, which would reduce the issue as prior to GPS tracking this issue has primarily been caused by driver misconduct that wasn't provable to have occurred so they couldn't be disciplined for it).

That would concentrate minds. Some bus companies, primarily smaller ones, simply do not take non-operation or early operation of last journeys seriously enough.

[1] I'm talking of situations like severe snowfall where the bus company withdraws the whole service for safety reasons or terrorist attack.

NorthernSpirit · 16 Dec 2019

jon0844 said:
The most we'll have at some places (in the UK), although seemingly being phased out now everyone has a smartphone, are information kiosks. They don't AFAIK allow any direct communication with anyone - just to check times, local news, weather and maybe even print timetables.

You'd think the simplest solution is a National Rail Enquiries service for buses where you can call up 24/7 to get information and assistance. Rather than now where you call the local bus company and even in the day there's no guarantee of an answer, but after 7-9pm chances are it won't be open at all.

Wouldn't Traveline be regarded as the bus version of National Rail Enquiries? However saying that some call centres are open until 9pm in other places 10pm.

175mph · 16 Dec 2019

AlbertBeale said:
The fragmentation/deregulation of bus services was a wondrous thing...

But what's to say the issues would have been any better even if deregulation had never taken place?

jon0844 · 16 Dec 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Just use Google Maps, it'll tell you all that and more including most UK cities' real time info now too.

The only real cause to phone a bus company is to complain - perhaps all that is needed is legislation requiring the bus company to reimburse the cost of a taxi against a receipt in the event that the non-operation of a service to any part of its route, regardless of reason outside of "force majeure"[1] or road closure, caused the passenger to be delayed for more than say one hour for a short journey and two hours for a longer one.

Early operation at a timing point given on the registration (even by one minute) should count as non-operation, and the passenger should be believed unless the company can provide verifiable GPS evidence that the journey operated as timetabled. (This would force smaller companies to add GPS tracking, which would reduce the issue as prior to GPS tracking this issue has primarily been caused by driver misconduct that wasn't provable to have occurred so they couldn't be disciplined for it).

That would concentrate minds. Some bus companies, primarily smaller ones, simply do not take non-operation or early operation of last journeys seriously enough.

[1] I'm talking of situations like severe snowfall where the bus company withdraws the whole service for safety reasons or terrorist attack.

Google Maps is no good for me, as the Ticketer feeds that drive the ZipTrip app doesn't feed into Google and so I don't get real-time tracking. That may change, but it hasn't yet. Even ZipTrip is currently experiencing issues whereby most stops show a bus as 'due' but is in fact stuck on there. I know to ignore that and only look for future buses, but that's not ideal.

I've reported it, but nothing has been fixed (thus proving your point that bus operators don't seem to take things seriously).

Knowing where the bus is doesn't help if you leave the pub and go to the bus stop, then discover the bus isn't on its way. I wouldn't know what bus to track to see if its in motion and will operate a return working, for example.

How do you claim later if you were going to pay for the bus when it arrived? I can't prove I was at the bus stop all that time, and I've not suffered any loss I can easily prove. If I get a taxi, they're simply not going to reimburse me.

The safest move, and one I expect most people do, is not to even bother getting the last bus. As such, usage falls and eventually that last bus is axed. Over time, rinse and repeat for the next last bus, until the last bus is at 6pm!

carlberry · 16 Dec 2019

AlbertBeale said:
The fragmentation/deregulation of bus services was a wondrous thing...

Yes, it was much better back then when there were never any examples of drivers running early back to the depot or even not bothering to run at all!

TheGrandWazoo · 16 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
Yes, it was much better back then when there were never any examples of drivers running early back to the depot or even not bothering to run at all!

Yep - not like there was a load of archaic union agreements that resulted in that sort of thing.

cnjb8 · 16 Dec 2019

175mph said:
Have you ever been on the last one when when it actually broke down?

Yes, a few times.

iantherev · 16 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
Yes, it was much better back then when there were never any examples of drivers running early back to the depot or even not bothering to run at all!

In the early 1980s, the Cardiff Bus operated early evening journey from Tredegar was notorious for running early. CB did a later turn but used a National so the driver was presumably keen to get his Fleetline back to depot (and the K-Liners could shift!)

bussnapperwm · 16 Dec 2019

Igo (West Midlands Accessible Transport operator) were notorious on some routes from one depot (Frankly) at one stage not operating for hours on end with the evening/Sunday contracts. Ironically the worst delay was during the Merry Hill Christmas opening hours with one bus hourly bus missing and the last trip didn't turn up at all.

PeterC · 16 Dec 2019

Caught out once when I was at university in the 70s. The last Crossville service into Aberystwyth was effectively "empty to depot" despite being shown in the timetable and would be back at least 15 minutes before the published time. Once I made the mistake of waiting for a bus back from the campus to my digs in town.

Busaholic · 16 Dec 2019

Only the once, after which I'd never rely on the last bus. That was 1966, and I left Chislehurst Caves where various groups were appearing for the one night, in different caves. I missed seeing the Jimi Hendrix Experience to catch the last bus, and had to walk several miles home. I could have seen them first, then walked home. Rankles still, as you can tell!

dvboy · 16 Dec 2019

Six years ago I was stranded in Colehill by NXWM and they refunded the cost of the taxi to Birmingham City Centre. Wrote about it here.

AlbertBeale · 17 Dec 2019

175mph said:
But what's to say the issues would have been any better even if deregulation had never taken place?

Er - common sense?

TheGrandWazoo · 17 Dec 2019

AlbertBeale said:
Er - common sense?

Ah yes.... the forever sunlit uplands of pre 1986.....

I remember catching the last bus (2300) one Saturday night and it was my dad driving. Due in town at 23:36, actual arrival 23:25 having absolutely caned a Bristol LH for 12 miles! Having already largely cashed up, a quick bit of accountancy (completing waybill etc) in the town centre and then into the depot before into the car and home by 2340!

carlberry · 17 Dec 2019

TheGrandWazoo said:
Ah yes.... the forever sunlit uplands of pre 1986.....

I remember catching the last bus (2300) one Saturday night and it was my dad driving. Due in town at 23:36, actual arrival 23:25 having absolutely caned a Bristol LH for 12 miles! Having already largely cashed up, a quick bit of accountancy (completing waybill etc) in the town centre and then into the depot before into the car and home by 2340!

A bit slow, the usual aim was to be home before the signing off time!

TheGrandWazoo · 17 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
A bit slow, the usual aim was to be home before the signing off time!

True.... but then again, if an 0680 engined RELH was mysteriously swapped for the evening......

Geordie driver · 17 Dec 2019

carlberry said:
A bit slow, the usual aim was to be home before the signing off time!

Made me laugh!
When I was driving if a bus broke down the fitter would come out with another bus and you would complete the run. There was a habit by some drivers of running early on very late runs, the company were loathe to do anything about it since effectively they operated a policy of " you're on your own mate" after 22 00. If they were going to book you for running early it was not unreasonable to expect them to give you some assistance with drunks etc.

Many smaller operators run on a knife edge of profitability, if you only have 3 or 4 buses out late they are not going to staff a manager. If they don't make a profit, they close.

When I worked out of Jesmond I,Newcastle,l lived about half a mile away and cycled home, it was all down hill and I was often in the house and still on the clock.

Bletchleyite · 17 Dec 2019

Geordie driver said:
Many smaller operators run on a knife edge of profitability, if you only have 3 or 4 buses out late they are not going to staff a manager. If they don't make a profit, they close.

There are certainly a few disreputable small operators in my local area where that would be by far the best outcome, as if they didn't exist the Council couldn't be pressured to accept their impossibly low tenders for their appalling service.

As for drivers who consider early running on the last bus acceptable or worse amusing like a few posts in this thread, they are unsuitable for a customer-facing role (as they do not consider the issues this causes for the customer) and so should not be in such a role. Repeatedly doing this (rather than a one off by accident) would to me be clear gross misconduct.

Of course there is the other option - change the timetable so the last run is very tightly timed so there's no way the drivers could run early[1], and make it clear that slight late running on this journey only is acceptable (and that drivers are paid for a bit of time over that run to take it into account). I do prefer full "Takt" but very few people will use the last bus without checking its times to make sure, so that one being "off Takt" is not disastrous.

[1] Basically work it out based on driving around the route in a bus without stopping at all but adhering to speed limits.

Geordie driver · 17 Dec 2019

Any early running, even by a minute, was bookable matter and impossible to defend.

But when you throw drivers to the wolves after a certain time it's not exactly surprising they please themselves.

Anyone here ever been stranded due to problems with the last bus?

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