Please Explain
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Did these trains have a bar when they were first introduced on the BeNeLux?
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Ex Fyra and now ETR 700 units new life
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Bletchleyite
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I doubt it, BeNeLux catering (if indeed there is any at all now) is and always was a trolley only.
AlexNL
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Nowadays it's not even a trolley, but a Railcateraar. A student with a few oversized backpacks selling sweets and refreshments.
Please Explain
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Ja.. I've seen those guys and girls with those strange looking giant oversized things on their backs full of KOFFIE! 
Not just on the InterCity Brussel, but on the koplopers on the domestic IC's within NL.
Not just on the InterCity Brussel, but on the koplopers on the domestic IC's within NL.
swt class 450
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Just looked that up online! What an absolute ridiculous way of doing catering! Search for "railcateraar" on google images and there are lots of photos. So they basically get someone to carry tons and tons of weight on them rather than having a simple trolley. That must be extremely heavy for them. Although at least they still have some form of catering unlike most of our trains these days. Which routes are they on these days? Is it all Intercity services or only on certain ones?
AlexNL
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In the 2018 timetable, the Railcateraars worked the following routes:
It's not a standard service on each IC train, Railcateraars serve the trains which have the highest chances of making a sale. You're likely to see someone during the morning rush hour, the evening rush hour and on well-loaded between peak services. During weekends they'll be more present on the touristy routes.
Their offering varies throughout the day as well: in the morning they might carry croissants, while in the afternoon they'll have stocked some beers. On warm days you can also run into someone selling ice pops.
Source: OV in Nederland
It's not a standard service on each IC train, Railcateraars serve the trains which have the highest chances of making a sale. You're likely to see someone during the morning rush hour, the evening rush hour and on well-loaded between peak services. During weekends they'll be more present on the touristy routes.
Their offering varies throughout the day as well: in the morning they might carry croissants, while in the afternoon they'll have stocked some beers. On warm days you can also run into someone selling ice pops.
swt class 450
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Many thanks for the information. That's very useful to know. I will look out for them next time i am travelling in the Netherlands. Interesting to see how they seem to stay away from the Amsterdam area on a lot of those routes. Do you know if there is a price list available anywhere? I am quite interested to know how much they charge and if it is overpriced like catering on trains in the UK or if it is fairly good value?
Perhaps there's too much competition from station and general city catering in the Amsterdam area to make the on board service viable. Being so mobile, without needing ramps and lifts for a trolley, makes the operatives very flexible, able to switch trains anywhere to maximise revenue, go get extra stock etc. If they're planning their own hours, routes and self stocking then there's probably little admin and supervision required. An interesting and bold venture.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
An article over at ferrovie.it http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8173 says the first ones are about to start "attività di pre-esercizio" which I take to be pre-service running/trial runs Milan/Pescara from today (4 Feb), and it now looks likely they will be branded as Frecciargento (not Frecciarossa), entering service next spring on Milano - Ancona - Pescara - Bari - Lecce services.
Craig2601
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So it’s looking like a new service then, as far as I’m aware there is currently no Frecciargento service from Milan past Ancona, only the Frecciabianca and Frecciarossa.
https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/trenitalia-prepares-to-launch-former-v250-fyra-emus/
Trenitalia prepares to launch former V250 Fyra EMUs
TRENITALIA moved a step closer to the introduction of its fleet of former Netherlands Railways (NS) and Belgian National Railways (SNCB) V250 Fyra EMUs on February 4 with the start of pre-launch operation on the Milan – Pescara route.
The AnsaldoBreda trains were rendered surplus by the collapse of the Amsterdam – Rotterdam – Brussels Fyra service in 2013 and handed back to the Italian manufacturer after it reached a settlement with NS and SNCB. Italian State Railways (FS) subsequently acquired 17 of the 19 trains in August 2017.
The V250 trains, which are now classified ETR 700, will operate in Frecciargento livery, reflecting their maximum commercial speed of 250km/h.
The first pre-launch run left Milan Central at 20.30 on February 4, arriving at Pescara at 03.30 on February 5. The train is due to leave Pescara at 15.54, arriving at Milan Lambrate at 23.32.
According to media reports, Trenitalia will use the fleet on Milan – Pescara – Lecce services.
Trenitalia prepares to launch former V250 Fyra EMUs
TRENITALIA moved a step closer to the introduction of its fleet of former Netherlands Railways (NS) and Belgian National Railways (SNCB) V250 Fyra EMUs on February 4 with the start of pre-launch operation on the Milan – Pescara route.
The AnsaldoBreda trains were rendered surplus by the collapse of the Amsterdam – Rotterdam – Brussels Fyra service in 2013 and handed back to the Italian manufacturer after it reached a settlement with NS and SNCB. Italian State Railways (FS) subsequently acquired 17 of the 19 trains in August 2017.
The V250 trains, which are now classified ETR 700, will operate in Frecciargento livery, reflecting their maximum commercial speed of 250km/h.
The first pre-launch run left Milan Central at 20.30 on February 4, arriving at Pescara at 03.30 on February 5. The train is due to leave Pescara at 15.54, arriving at Milan Lambrate at 23.32.
According to media reports, Trenitalia will use the fleet on Milan – Pescara – Lecce services.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
And on Venice-Lecce services (practically the whole length of the Adriatic coast line).
Trenitalia have taken 17 sets.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...view/fyra-v250-trainset-on-test-in-italy.html
The Fyra quality issues should not pass through to the Hitachi 802s.
The components for the trains will be the same ones whether they are assembled in Kasado, Newton Aycliffe or Pistoia (including the British/German ones like brakes/diesel engines).
Trenitalia have taken 17 sets.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...view/fyra-v250-trainset-on-test-in-italy.html
The Fyra quality issues should not pass through to the Hitachi 802s.
The components for the trains will be the same ones whether they are assembled in Kasado, Newton Aycliffe or Pistoia (including the British/German ones like brakes/diesel engines).
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eastwestdivide
Established Member
Another article on ferrovie.it
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8882
saying that 7 units have now been delivered, of which one was only for tests and has gone back to Hitachi
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8882
saying that 7 units have now been delivered, of which one was only for tests and has gone back to Hitachi
eastwestdivide
Established Member
Another article (in Italian) on ferrovie.it, with the ETR700s going into squadron service using the high speed line from the new timetable (15 Dec 2019). 7 services each way between Milan and the Adriatic Coast (Taranto, Bari, Lecce etc.):
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8951
http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/8951
eastwestdivide
Established Member
The ETR700s are Frecciargento.
Have a scratch around the timetables if you're desperate to use something else - I lookd for January on bahn.de and found an IC and an FB (Frecciabianca):
IC605 at 0705 Milan-Taranto (1826) via Bari (1705), and FB8803 at 0735 Milan-Bari (1527)
Have a scratch around the timetables if you're desperate to use something else - I lookd for January on bahn.de and found an IC and an FB (Frecciabianca):
IC605 at 0705 Milan-Taranto (1826) via Bari (1705), and FB8803 at 0735 Milan-Bari (1527)
43096
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What could possibly go wrong with putting these pieces of hideous junk into service in December?! Not like it’s been tried before...
axlecounter
Member
They’re already circulating on a daily basis and they seem to run quite smoothly for now.
MisterT
Member
There was no doubt that after a total rebuilt, the trains would actually be OK.
Most of the problems were down to the assembly being just a huge mess and there were quality issues in the material used that meant that the trains would have a life span of just (approx.) 20 to 25 years and would need replacing after that (corrosion).
Most of the problems were down to the assembly being just a huge mess and there were quality issues in the material used that meant that the trains would have a life span of just (approx.) 20 to 25 years and would need replacing after that (corrosion).
43096
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They’re still an utterly hideous design that fell out of the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down...... and was then smashed in the face with a pan.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
Just found some pictures including interiors on the German forum Drehscheibe here:
https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?030,9021076,9023556
But apart from news reports that they're coming into service, I can't seem to find any real-time on the ground reports of problems - perhaps no news is good news.
https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?030,9021076,9023556
But apart from news reports that they're coming into service, I can't seem to find any real-time on the ground reports of problems - perhaps no news is good news.
duesselmartin
Established Member
Yet they could not assemble them properly for export?
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