They've certainly started sprouting around the Netherlands and France.
Yep, I mostly travel around Germany to be fair, it makes sense in the Netherlands because everyone is using the OV-chipkaart anyway
They've certainly started sprouting around the Netherlands and France.
Hull guards seem to be fairly consistent with checking tickets. Although I don't go up the Yorkshire Coast Line all too often admittedly, so I can't really say what the situation is like there.Hull is a TPE run station but there are no barriers so no checks off Doncaster/Brid line services. Ticket checking by conductors is very variable on those Northern services.
Im not sure Northern put into place extra staff on days when there are one-off events like last Sundays Festival of Xmas at Beverley. Trains were heaving but didnt see any extra staff on duty. I was travelling to London and it took FIVE minutes to empty a Scarboro to Hull service at Beverley as it was so full. Cant believe they all had tickets! No signs of extra staff to check. And btw the ticket machine on platform 2 was not working!
They do that at Piccadilly already. They have a full-on goon squad in operation there.Jesus, when you think Piccadilly can't get any worse. How hard is it to just adopt the European model of no barriers but have regular enough manual checks that people buy to not get pinged with disproportionately large fines?
Then again, if we're talking about Northern, then at least today for people to avoid fares there needs to be trains to run
That only happens if an RPI catches them without a ticket before a guard sells them one. And I have never seen an RPI anywhere on the Northern network, let alone in a relative backwater (with consideration to other places) like Hull.I travel, regularly on the Hull, Bridlington and Scarborough line, and there always ticket checks on the trains. One thing that puzzles me is when someone from, for example, Cottingham gets on the train without a ticket and is not issued with a penalty fare. I thought if you did not purchase a ticket prior to your journey, you would receive a penalty fare. I always purchase my ticket before travelling, so have no personal experience.
That only happens if an RPI catches them without a ticket before a guard sells them one. And I have never seen an RPI anywhere on the Northern network, let alone in a relative backwater (with consideration to other places) like Hull.
There are a disproportionate number of goons at Piccadilly unfortunately. Even Network Rail have been fed up with them as they usually get the blame for any dispute etc rather than the TOC. NR banned Northern from conducting ticket checks on Fairfield Street earlier this year as they wouldn't let those with genuine disability use the access lift upto platforms 13/14 without a ticket. They only do checks at the satellite lounge now.The goon squad at Piccadilly are used as ticket barriers, to the dismay of most travellers.
....earlier this year as they wouldn't let those with genuine disability use the access lift upto platforms 13/14 without a ticket. They only do checks at the satellite lounge now.
Yes, my bad with that one! I'd only worked the front set of a 5 car turbo that day tooErr, and the Class 165 and 166 of course. (Good to have a second member of staff in the rear unit when one breaks down in the Severn Tunnel for 2 1/2 hours.)
Meadowhall is a good place to find large numbers of RPIs, presumably because experience suggests a lot avoid paying on lines passing through there, although I've only seen them in action by the Barnsley and Leeds platforms.
Northern had to implement a penalty fare scheme as a franchise requirement. It also had to reduce instances of ticketless travel (which wasn't exactly difficult as it was much higher under serco/abellio due to having nowhere to buy and e/m tickets not being the norm). This is one thing Arriva has done and exceeded franchise requirements.Promise to pay is an absolute shambles on the lines around Sheffield. What’s the point in a policy if it isn’t going to be enforced? And fare evasion is rife as Sheffield is not a gated station. Some Sheffield-Huddersfield 3-car services do have 2 onboard staff to work each end of the train to try get everyone to pay up.
Northern though as with any aspects of it's operation is a real frustration when it comes to tickets and I know a few people who no longer use Northern in my locality (Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road via Warrington Central) in a rush hour precisely because they can't buy a ticket to travel. The typical scenario is they arrive for their train in a morning (their local station has no ticketing arrangements and I include self service tickets in this). They get on the train which everyone is packed in to like sardines so as a result to guard cannot get down the train to sell tickets. When they get to Oxford Road they have to have a ticket to get off the station so they queue up for longer than the journey itself takes just to buy a ticket. Not a great way to have to commute
Of course guards know what goes on, and some make greater efforts than others to collect fares. One or two are really keen, but the initial enthusiasm of new starters must get worn down by the practical impossibility of the task.Usually fun on the Morecambe to Lancaster trains. It's usually Bare Lane where most people get on (unmanned, no ticket machine). People are pushing and shoving each other to get to the front/Lancaster end of the train. They only do that because they know the guard starts coming through from the rear to check/sell tickets, so the further they are forward, ahead of as many other passengers as possible, the less likely the guard will reach them. No barriers at Lancaster, so once the train reaches the station approach, and the guard turns around and goes back to the rear to be ready to operate the doors, the front passengers know they have got away with it.
I've never understood why Northern care so little about fare dodgers. Do the management really not know what goes on? Does the guard not report back periodically as to what s/he can see clearly happens? Does management not ask the guards what goes on?
Of course guards know what goes on, and some make greater efforts than others to collect fares. One or two are really keen, but the initial enthusiasm of new starters must get worn down by the practical impossibility of the task.
One complex transaction and a whole carriage gets away unchecked. As an example, I took my wife, son, his wife and two grandsons to Manchester from Grindleford and wanted Manchester Wayfarers for us all with a variety of railcards. The guard didn't know how to do it and after New Mills gave up and told me to go to the booking office at Piccadilly, which I did. That's extreme. At least the TVMs are helping with routine journeys , but obtaining a promise to pay is standard practice for very many who have debit cards and know they'll not be asked to pay on the train. It's an insurance to avoid a penalty fare.
Going back to Bare Lane, does anyone know why it hasn’t got a ticket machine(s). I thought that when the current Northern franchise was let there was a commitment to install machines at all stations above a certain footfall. We now have machines in the Hope Valley (even if often unusable because of sun on screen, sorry). Bare Lane isn’t some tiny halt in the middle of nowhere.
Whilst there's no stipulation to (Yet!) I'm sure all these folk have a smartphone in their hand so could easily buy a ticket on an app whilst eating their cornflakes at home or when waiting on the platform for their train?Generally wherever you travel (and I include the London Underground in this too) once you get past around 8.00pm most ticket barriers wherever installed are unmanned and open so people have free movement. That said when I got off at Deansgate Castlefield a few Saturdays ago around 8.15pm there were ticket checks at the exit but at street level only when at one time tickets were checked at platform level so there was no opportunity to cross the footbridge towards the Metrolink station and leave the network there
Tickets checks it seems to me vary significantly - I have a disabled pass to travel on buses, trams etc. that last for 2 years. I am a reasonably regular user of the Metrolink and my last pass didn't get checked once in 2 years I had it!
Northern though as with any aspects of it's operation is a real frustration when it comes to tickets and I know a few people who no longer use Northern in my locality (Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Oxford Road via Warrington Central) in a rush hour precisely because they can't buy a ticket to travel. The typical scenario is they arrive for their train in a morning (their local station has no ticketing arrangements and I include self service tickets in this). They get on the train which everyone is packed in to like sardines so as a result to guard cannot get down the train to sell tickets. When they get to Oxford Road they have to have a ticket to get off the station so they queue up for longer than the journey itself takes just to buy a ticket. Not a great way to have to commute
Not really a complex transaction and looks like poor training on Northerns part (and I know Northern give very little training on it). Railcard discounts are not available on Wayfarers and the 4 types of Wayfarer (Adult, Child, Concession, Group) can easily be found on the Rovers section on the Star Mobile.One complex transaction and a whole carriage gets away unchecked. As an example, I took my wife, son, his wife and two grandsons to Manchester from Grindleford and wanted Manchester Wayfarers for us all with a variety of railcards. The guard didn't know how to do it and after New Mills gave up and told me to go to the booking office at Piccadilly, which I did. That's extreme. At least the TVMs are helping with routine journeys , but obtaining a promise to pay is standard practice for very many who have debit cards and know they'll not be asked to pay on the train. It's an insurance to avoid a penalty fare.
If they’re anything like the Scotrail smart cards then they’ll be uselessAnd don't northern now have smart cards as season tickets?
Something I've just remembered this morning is that there are some Northern Guards and maybe Guards/Train Managers at other TOCS that dont actually check tickets properly, I've got a Disabled Railcard which I always carry with me whenever I'm out and there are times in the past when I've been on a train and shown the Guard/Train Manager my ticket when asked and never been challenged to show my Railcard, jutst shows how easy it can be for anyone to actually buy a ticket and add on the Railcard discount from a ticket machine and not be challenged when a ticket check takes place on a train.