Fine/ prosecution or nothing

Surf's up · 17 Dec 2019

Good morning any help would be appreciated.My son boarded a trainlical branch line train at Exeter station and couldn't show a valid ticket for the previous train which hit him to Exeter (didn't think he needed to keep it) when paying in board the local train conductor asked to see you key that had got him to Exeter.He couldn't produce it he asked to see UD sold him a ticket for the complete journey and told him he could be prosecuted.
I guess he should have kept main journey ticket my query is would they sell a ticket then prosecute as he now has a ticket for the whole journey which conductor sold at full price.He was not told he was being questioned under caution
Any advice would be great
Thanks

RailUK Forums

Surf's up · 17 Dec 2019

Surf's up said:
Good morning any help would be appreciated.My son boarded a trainlical branch line train at Exeter station and couldn't show a valid ticket for the previous train which hit him to Exeter (didn't think he needed to keep it) when paying in board the local train conductor asked to see you key that had got him to Exeter.He couldn't produce it he asked to see UD sold him a ticket for the complete journey and told him he could be prosecuted.
I guess he should have kept main journey ticket my query is would they sell a ticket then prosecute as he now has a ticket for the whole journey which conductor sold at full price.He was not told he was being questioned under caution
Any advice would be great
Thanks

Sorry clumsy typing *local branch line
*Got him to Exeter

Darandio · 17 Dec 2019

I imagine that because he has paid the full dare due, that is the end of the matter. When told he could be prosecuted, it's probable that it means he could have been had he not complied.

Surf's up · 17 Dec 2019

Thank you for your speedy reply.A lesson hopefully learned -to keep hold of tickets until home

furlong · 17 Dec 2019

The railway does not normally prosecute after the correct fare has been paid. Two trains, but the railway considers it to be one journey - it's an offence to travel beyond the station you've paid to travel to. He needed to buy a ticket for the complete journey in the first instance, or else, having not done so, use the ticket facilities at Exeter and not board the local train without a ticket. If time is short, he should speak to the conductor before boarding the train and seek permission to travel to avoid the threat of prosecution, but, having discarded the first ticket, might still have been required to pay the same fare.

Surf's up · 17 Dec 2019

Thank you very much.I think the person who sold the ticket was a ticket conductor rather than an inspector that may have saved his bacon.I thought it unlikely to go further if he was sold a full priced ticket.Hopefully that will be the case.

furlong · 17 Dec 2019

(All that said, as a precaution, keep the ticket that was bought for at least six months, so you can produce it if there is any follow-up.)

Surf's up · 17 Dec 2019

Thank you furlong,good advice.We will.

some bloke · 17 Dec 2019

Surf's up said:
he asked to see UD sold him a ticket for the complete journey and told him he could be prosecuted.

Did the conductor write down your son's name and address? If not, prosecution - or any correspondence - would be even more surprising.

Surf's up · 18 Dec 2019

Son thinks photographed and said he didn't take notes .I read somewhere on this forum, that if a new ticket is purchased he would or could not be prosecuted under the Railway Regulation Act.Could anyone confirm if this is the case or not.Many thanks to you all.

cuccir · 19 Dec 2019

Surf's up said:
if a new ticket is purchased he would or could not be prosecuted under the Railway Regulation Act.

I'm not aware that this would be the case: it has been shown in law that intent to avoid paying a fare (which is the key specific action that this Act criminalises) does not have to be permanent. In other words, I can intend to avoid paying a fare, and then later pay it, and still be found guilty.

Buying a ticket would certainly not prevent prosecution under the Railway Bylaws, which specifically make it a crime to enter a train without a valid ticket.

In terms of your son, it doesn't sound like he will prosecuted if no personal details were taken.

Surf's up · 19 Dec 2019

Oh dear it's quite a worry.I wonder if people are normally given a sheet of paper my son did not think the conductor took notes but did take a photo of his I D.He certainly wasn't cautioned.

Surf's up · 20 Dec 2019

Just to update.Son received letter asking for £37, admin fee and cost of ticket -which he had already paid for when found without ticket.However I'm not complaining we are just relieved.Thank you for your help.I hope you enjoy the festivities.

furlong · 20 Dec 2019

Surf's up said:
Just to update.Son received letter asking for £37, admin fee and cost of ticket -which he had already paid for when found without ticket.However I'm not complaining we are just relieved.Thank you for your help.I hope you enjoy the festivities.

So you sent in the already purchased ticket (keeping a copy) with an explanation? Certainly should not be paying twice!

some bloke · 20 Dec 2019

Three times, with the original ticket?

Surf's up · 20 Dec 2019

Yes 3 times!No tel number or email to query the paying of the ticket yet again.I think we are over a barrel but the alternative is a worry.If I could get in touch I would be tempted to. We have 21 days.They must be keen as this all happened on Monday and letter arrived today!Thanks once again for all the advice.

some bloke · 20 Dec 2019

Surf's up said:
No tel number or email to query the paying of the ticket

These may be of interest, perhaps including social media:
https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/contact

Surf's up said:
I think we are over a barrel

Hopefully not, at least on the "cost of the ticket".

some bloke · 20 Dec 2019

Maybe if they realise they've made a mistake in attempting to charge for the ticket again, they might be more likely to drop the rest.

furlong · 20 Dec 2019

The ticket you kept will contain details of its issue on it. This should match up with the report that was made - same person - so there are legitimate questions to ask - politely - about the robustness of the company's internal procedures. Expect an apology.

furlong · 20 Dec 2019

I'd suggest a polite, good-humoured written reply, expressing polite surprise, reminding them briefly and in neutral terms of what actually happened, that obviously no further money is due and would they confirm they are consequently closing the matter.

some bloke · 21 Dec 2019

Is it worth asking for the second fare back (minus the fare actually due, from Exeter to the destination)?

It might be phrased as a gesture of goodwill, or your son's "admin" time or inconvenience from dealing with their erroneous second demand for "the cost of the ticket".

Can he include evidence of having paid the first time - a card receipt? Was the cost of the first ticket substantial?

some bloke · 21 Dec 2019

(Others are better placed than me in judging whether the risk of prosecution is negligible, though the company might not relish the idea of hearing in court that they had tried to charge for the same thing twice.)

Surf's up · 21 Dec 2019

The cost of the ticket was £12.I think he will just pay and put it down to experience and draw a line under it.Thank you all very much for your measured responses.It certainly is quite an eye opener to see how easy it would be to get into serious trouble .

some bloke · 22 Dec 2019

If he'd rather pay, it's open to him to write afterwards - which might get the £37 back as well. Perhaps:

"Please confirm that there was no error in charging for the whole journey a second time. The company does not appear to dispute that I had already paid the conductor the same amount.

I bought a ticket from [origin] to Exeter, which I subsequently lost. I then paid the conductor for the whole journey. I understand that the company may not believe me that I did not buy the first ticket. I attach a photo of the second ticket."

Fine/ prosecution or nothing

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