• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Altrincham line services in heavy rail days

Status
Not open for further replies.

AY1975

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2016
Messages
1,748
Can anyone remember what the service pattern on the Altrincham line was in heavy rail days? I was an occasional user of the line for a time in the mid-1980s as a child, and I seem to recall that it had four trains per hour during the day on Mondays-Saturdays and a half-hourly service in the evenings and on Sundays (plus the Manchester-Northwich-Chester DMUs, which ran via Sale until 1989 when they were rerouted via Stockport).

I seem to recall that the electrics (mostly Class 304 EMUs, plus some ex-Glasgow 303s for a time in the mid to late 1980s, and occasionally 310s) ran through from Altrincham to a number of destinations south of Manchester, including Hazel Grove, Alderley Edge via Styal, Crewe via Wilmslow, and Stafford via Stoke-on-Trent.

Conversion to Metrolink obviously meant the loss of through services to those destinations from the Altrincham line but being able to get closer to workplaces and visitor attractions in Manchester city centre without having to change onto a bus. I would guess that a lot more Altrincham line passengers would want to get to central Manchester than to places further south such as those mentioned above, though.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Revaulx

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2019
Messages
476
Location
Saddleworth
From re-electrification in 1971 until the Hazel Grove electrification in 1981 the pattern was:

Crewe vía Stockport
AE vía Styal
AE vía Stockport
AE vía Styal

In 1500v DC days there were only three trains an hour off peak.
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,757
Location
Wilmslow
A couple of pages from the May 1977 Working Timetable attached (one page peak, one page off-peak).
At the time the electrification to Hazel Grove hadn't been done, so there were services every fifteen minutes to Alderley Edge, alternating between Styal and Stockport, with one of the Stockport services extended to Crewe. Alderley Edge had sidings in which units stabled overnight. More trains at peak times of course, approximately one train every ten minutes from Manchester to Altrincham.

I only used the services to get from Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Piccadilly in the afternoon/evenings, after school. I lived in Poynton, then Bollington (train to Macclesfield, then bus) for which all the services departed from Manchester Piccadilly. Unlike now, the relatively infrequent service Oxford Road to Piccadilly (five trains per hour off-peak) was pretty reliable. In the morning the bus service out of Manchester to school (Manchester Grammar) left mid-way between Piccadilly and Oxford Road so it made sense to walk from Piccadilly to the 50 bus stop. In the evenings the bus service dropped off outside Oxford Road station.
 

Attachments

  • Altrincham service 1979.pdf
    2.9 MB · Views: 64
Last edited:

Altfish

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2014
Messages
1,065
Location
Altrincham
Don't forget the Manchester Oxford Road to Ditton Junction service (via Lymm and Warrington BQ Low Level) that ran until September 1962.
 

Richard P

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2018
Messages
92
When I first use these trains over 50 years ago they ran every 15-20 minutes using the old current between platforms 1 & 2 at Altrincham and platforms 5 & 6 at Manchester Oxford Road which was as far as the services could run due to the differing currents. To head to the likes of Stockport, Alderley Edge & Stafford you had to change services at Oxford Road. Post current change platform 6 was taken out of service & the track lifted although the platform still remains there today.
In the early 80's pre Metrolink trains were every 15 minutes and outside rush hour generally poorly used, as per above these were supplemented by an hourly DMU service to Chester which stopped at Sale only (maybe also Knott Mill as Deansgate was then known) then all stations from Altrincham to Chester
 

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,072
Can anyone remember what the service pattern on the Altrincham line was in heavy rail days? I was an occasional user of the line for a time in the mid-1980s as a child, and I seem to recall that it had four trains per hour during the day on Mondays-Saturdays and a half-hourly service in the evenings and on Sundays (plus the Manchester-Northwich-Chester DMUs, which ran via Sale until 1989 when they were rerouted via Stockport).

I seem to recall that the electrics (mostly Class 304 EMUs, plus some ex-Glasgow 303s for a time in the mid to late 1980s, and occasionally 310s) ran through from Altrincham to a number of destinations south of Manchester, including Hazel Grove, Alderley Edge via Styal, and Crewe (both via Wilmslow and via Stoke-on-Trent).
Never Crewe via Stoke, as the line through Alsager was only wired relatively recently.
I lodged with a colleague who lived in Stretford for a while and we commuted happily to Crewe together on the 304s without having to change trains.
 

Statto

Established Member
Joined
8 Feb 2011
Messages
3,208
Location
At home or at the pub
My 1972/72 BR London Midland region timetable, shows a 4 trains an hour, with additional hourly Oxford Road-Chester via Northwich, pattern described as above but 2 trains an hour via Style, one train an hour via Stockport extending to Crewe, the Mid Cheshire line was Oxford Road, Sale, Altrincham, the all stations to Chester
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
In the good old DC days the basic 3-car electric service was every 20 minutes London Road-Altrincham, increased to every 5-10 minutes (and 6-car) in the peaks.
Services were often increased for sports events at Old Trafford (cricket and football).
Services were cut back to Oxford Road c1958-60 so that London Road could be rebuilt, after which AC EMUs reached Oxford Road from the east at 4tph.
This service pattern was then extended southwest to Altrincham once the line had been converted to AC in 1971.

Oxford Road-Timperley-Lymm-Warrington BQLL-Ditton Jn-Liverpool Lime St had an irregular service with steam push-pull stock until 1962.
Some of these trains terminated from the west at Timperley.
During the rebuild of Oxford Road c1960 this service terminated at Warwick Road with DMUs but went back to steam before closure.
CLC-route DMUs from Central to Northwich/Chester joined the line at Cornbrook, calling at Sale and occasionally Stretford.
These were normally 1tph but had a second train to Northwich at times.
During this period (1950-60s) there were no passenger trains Ordsall Lane-Oxford Road or Altrincham-Stockport, nor any trains crossing Manchester on this route.
The "Castlefield Corridor Problem" did not exist!
 

vidal

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2017
Messages
90
Location
Bolton
How much of the route from Oxford Road to Altrincham was four track? And when was it removed?

James
 

Revaulx

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2019
Messages
476
Location
Saddleworth
How much of the route from Oxford Road to Altrincham was four track? And when was it removed?

James
From just north of Sale to just south of Okd Trafford. Dane Road, Stretford and Warwick Road all had four platforms.

I can remember the track being lifted. It happened a year or two before I stated travelling along the line daily on my way to school in 1968.
 

Revaulx

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2019
Messages
476
Location
Saddleworth
No; the platforms could only take six coaches. 2 x 3-car running was common in DC days, and later when the 304s were reduced to 3-car and the 303s started to appear.
 

kermit

Member
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
592
No; the platforms could only take six coaches. 2 x 3-car running was common in DC days, and later when the 304s were reduced to 3-car and the 303s started to appear.

I know that 2 x 3 cars was common before the 1971 conversion to 25kv AC four car units (mainly AM4 or Class 304s), but I'm certain that I also saw 2 x 4 car trains in the 1970s, albeit very infrequently, and I believe the platforms were then long enough to cope (although they were somewhat dusty and gravelly towards the lesser-used ends). The platforms also occasionally managed to accommodate oddities like loco-hauled Merrymaker excursions, which I think were of about 10 x Mk1s plus usually a Class 40? Going back to the OP's question, I also recall that the stations along the line were shut on Sunday mornings, with services only starting around 1pm?
 

jfollows

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
5,757
Location
Wilmslow
Going back to the OP's question, I also recall that the stations along the line were shut on Sunday mornings, with services only starting around 1pm?

Yes, indeed. In 1977 the up Sunday services were:

11:02 DMU Altrincham to Piccadilly (10:03 from Chester) (only intermediate stop Oxford Road)
13:23 DMU Altrincham to Oxford Road (12:24 from Chester) (non-stop)
13:28 EMU Altrincham to Piccadilly
13:58 EMU Altrincham to Crewe
and pretty much every 30 minutes only plus a couple of fast DMUs from then until 22:28, the last train being
22:55 DMU Altrincham to Piccadilly (22:03 from Chester) (calling at Sale, Stretford, Old Trafford [as was] & Oxford Road)
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
From just north of Sale to just south of Okd Trafford. Dane Road, Stretford and Warwick Road all had four platforms.
I can remember the track being lifted. It happened a year or two before I stated travelling along the line daily on my way to school in 1968.

Plus the Navigation Road-Altrincham section.
Still there, but segregated between main line and Metrolink.
A lot of freight used this section from Stockport en route to Northwich and beyond, notably limestone trains from the Buxton area.
There was also a bit of multiple trackage south of Timperley to accommodate the junction for Lymm/Warrington.
There is still a 3rd track there which helps regulate the trams before the single line section though Navigation Road.

At least one electric loco-hauled train operated from Altrincham to London after 25kV conversion, but there was never a regular service.
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,229
Location
Greater Manchester
Plus the Navigation Road-Altrincham section.
Still there, but segregated between main line and Metrolink.
A lot of freight used this section from Stockport en route to Northwich and beyond, notably limestone trains from the Buxton area.
There was also a bit of multiple trackage south of Timperley to accommodate the junction for Lymm/Warrington.
There is still a 3rd track there which helps regulate the trams before the single line section though Navigation Road.

At least one electric loco-hauled train operated from Altrincham to London after 25kV conversion, but there was never a regular service.
From a previous closed thread Skelton Junction:
apk55 said:
A useful guide to the railways around Altrincham is the book "The Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway" By Frank Dixon published by Oakwood Press. (A search on Amazon indicated copies are available.)
Originally just north of Altrincham station was a two track level crossing where the current footbridge is located. It also had a footbridge for pedestrians and caused great chaos as both the railway and road were very busy. The two bay lines joined the Chester lines just before this level crossing. North of the level crossing there were two loops which extended to just before Navigation Road. There was also an engine shed where Ambassador place is now, but this closed when the line was electrified in 1931. In 1971 the Woodlands Parkway flyover was built and level crossing was closed although a level pedestrian crossing remained open until about 1991 as the footbridge was very high with steep steps to clear the overhead wires which were at maximum hight because of the level crossing.
In 1991 in preparation for Metrolink the current arrangement was done with a four track footbridge at a much lower height. There is a very rusty connection between the two rail systems just north of this footbridge.
The current Metrolink 3-track section south of Timperley in fact comprises a pocket reversing siding between the two running lines, with no exit at the southern end. Trams are sometimes turned short at Timperley to recover delays, or in case of engineering works on the Network Rail section to the south.
 

Altfish

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2014
Messages
1,065
Location
Altrincham
One line of the 4 track section remained into the 70s(?) There were coal trains to Stretford and an occasional football special to Warwick Road that used it.
 

Greybeard33

Established Member
Joined
18 Feb 2012
Messages
4,229
Location
Greater Manchester
I know that 2 x 3 cars was common before the 1971 conversion to 25kv AC four car units (mainly AM4 or Class 304s), but I'm certain that I also saw 2 x 4 car trains in the 1970s, albeit very infrequently, and I believe the platforms were then long enough to cope (although they were somewhat dusty and gravelly towards the lesser-used ends). The platforms also occasionally managed to accommodate oddities like loco-hauled Merrymaker excursions, which I think were of about 10 x Mk1s plus usually a Class 40? Going back to the OP's question, I also recall that the stations along the line were shut on Sunday mornings, with services only starting around 1pm?
According to Wikipedia:
In 1939 eight additional trailers were added, both new build and secondhand conversions, inserted into eight of the 3-car sets, and these allowed 7-car trains to be run on many peak hour services. The Altrincham electrics had substantial power installed and were well able to handle the extra car. As with other Manchester area suburban electric services, demand reduced notably from the 1950s onwards, and the 7-car trains were eliminated.
However, the DC units had carriages that were only 17.6m long, so a 7-car formation was 123m, only slightly longer than a 6-car 303/304.
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
To add to the reply by LNW-GW Joint, until at least the late 1950s, a few of the peak hour Altrincham emu services ran "semi-fast", omitting some of the intermediate stations.

The CLC services from Manchester Central were irregular before dmu operation, only about every 2 hours outside peak hours; most ran fast to Altrincham, but a few also stopped at Sale. One peak hour service each way remained steam-worked for several years after dmu operation commenced on this line.

The Manchester London Road (as it then was) services to the line via Lymm to Warrington Bank Quay Low Level services were pretty sparse:
London Road departures (Summer 1958):
06:55 Liverpool Lime St (arrive 08:48)
07:44 (SX) Ditton Jn
12:25 Ditton Jn
16:05 Liverpool Lime St. (arrive 18:10)
16:58 Warrington Bank Quay L.L.
17:25 (SO) Warrington Bank Quay L.L.
18:58 Warrington Bank Quay L.L.
22:45 Warrington Arpley.
Various stopping patterns between Oxford Road and Timperley; most called at Sale.

So timings not much use for anyone who wanted to commute to/from Manchester and work in the city centre (typical working hours finished between 17:00 & 18:00).
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,018
Prewar Altrincham electric timetableAltrincham.JPG

very concentrated arrivals between 0830 and 0900 at Manchester, 7-car electric trains running 3 minutes apart.
 
Joined
27 Feb 2013
Messages
89
I think that in AC days occasional trips to and from Altrincham by AM10s were from further afield, and I think the occasional one - perhaps on a summer Saturday, ran through as a stopper via Stoke, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Northampton to Euston. And I think it is just possible that one of them may have operated via Walsall (then reversing there of course).


John Prytherch.
 

daodao

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2016
Messages
2,908
Location
Dunham/Bowdon
The 1500v dc electric multiple units introduced in 1931 were all based at a depot located in the original MSJ&AR Bowdon terminus adjacent to Lloyd Street, which has since disappeared. Their introduction coincided (within a few weeks) with the demise of the original electric tram service that terminated at the foot of the Downs.

Details of historic passenger services can be found in old copies of Bradshaw. LMS timetables contained the M/c-Dunham-Warrington-Liverpool service (which ceased in 1962) and the MSJA&R service; the latter was also shown in old LNER timetables as the GCR (originally MS&LR) was a joint owner of the MSJ&AR. The CLC service was originally only shown in LNER timetables, although by the 1960s all the services were just shown in LM Region timetables. At one time, there was also 1 LNWR train a day that ran from London Road via Altrincham and Middlewich to Crewe, and carried through carriages for Euston; this service had ceased by WW2.

In the late 1960s, the Sunday electric service did not start until 2 pm, which meant that passengers travelling to Warwick Road for the Sunday league 40 over matches could not reach Old Trafford by train in time to see the first few overs.
 

BucksBones

Member
Joined
18 Jul 2017
Messages
332
In the later days of heavy rail on this line I remember that all Sunday services used to be operated by DMUs but I was never sure why... Anyone know?
 

Springs Branch

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2013
Messages
1,418
Location
Where my keyboard has no £ key
In the later days of heavy rail on this line I remember that all Sunday services used to be operated by DMUs but I was never sure why... Anyone know?
Could it have been because the power had to be switched off to allow modifications to OHLE pending conversion to Metrolink?

Having said this, the Altrincham line was completely closed and bustituted for around 6 months in the first half of 1992 for the conversion (according to Wiki), so presumably any electrical mods could have been done then.
 

Altfish

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2014
Messages
1,065
Location
Altrincham
Could it have been because the power had to be switched off to allow modifications to OHLE pending conversion to Metrolink?

Having said this, the Altrincham line was completely closed and bustituted for around 6 months in the first half of 1992 for the conversion (according to Wiki), so presumably any electrical mods could have been done then.
Yes, it closed either Xmas Eve or New Year's Eve (Can't remember which, I think it was the former but not sure) and opened again in June
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,018
In the later days of heavy rail on this line I remember that all Sunday services used to be operated by DMUs but I was never sure why... Anyone know?
Probably cheaper to operate. The minimum electric stock was a 4-car. Have to appreciate how restricted off-peak travel had become by the 1990s, local buses were still cheap, and there wasn't a lot to travel to on Sundays in the winter, particularly in city centres which rail services focused on. Shops were all closed until the 1994 Sunday Trading act. A lot of other places were closed as well. I recall Glasgow used 3-car Blue Trains but all ticket offices were closed and the trains used an early version of SDO with just one car opening the doors, with a conductor inside.
 

kermit

Member
Joined
2 May 2011
Messages
592
Probably cheaper to operate. The minimum electric stock was a 4-car. Have to appreciate how restricted off-peak travel had become by the 1990s, local buses were still cheap, and there wasn't a lot to travel to on Sundays in the winter, particularly in city centres which rail services focused on. Shops were all closed until the 1994 Sunday Trading act. A lot of other places were closed as well. I recall Glasgow used 3-car Blue Trains but all ticket offices were closed and the trains used an early version of SDO with just one car opening the doors, with a conductor inside.
....although of course all of the Class 304s were reduced to 3-car units by the early 1980s. I would guess that DMUs were used on Sundays to give maximum flexibility in the event that OHLE was needing to be turned off for Sunday maintenance work anywhere between Altrincham and Crewe?
 

AY1975

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2016
Messages
1,748
....although of course all of the Class 304s were reduced to 3-car units by the early 1980s.

Actually it was a bit later, I think they were reduced to 3-cars between about 1984 and 1986. For a short while they ran as 4-cars but with the first class compartments declassified. I remember travelling in the declassified first class sections in the mid-1980s. They were often in a rather sorry state by then, though.

See also my thread on the 304s at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-304-emus.166141/
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top