• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Balcombe Tunnel Flooded 20/12

Status
Not open for further replies.

2HAP

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
467
Location
Hadlow
BBC South East TV just reported that the Brighton Mainline at a standstill due to flooding in the Balcombe Tunnel. Passengers reported to be trapped on stranded trains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50863956
Trains between Brighton and Haywards Heath are being disrupted and there are no services between Haywards Heath and Three Bridges

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-sussex-50864447

Southern is advising passengers not to travel between Brighton and Gatwick Airport.

Disruption is expected to continue until 14:00 GMT, the rail company said on its website.

Trains are still running between Gatwick Airport and London Bridge and London Victoria.

Passengers for stations south of Haywards Heath are advised to travel south to Brighton and travel via Barnham.

Southern Rail has warned commuters and holidaymakers there are no rail services between Brighton and Gatwick.


Southeastern says the lines between Maidstone West and Strood are closed after a tree fell on the line near Halling
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
It's not been a good week on the Brighton line to put it mildly and the M23 is also closed by flooding. Trains are still running north of Three Bridges.
 

Peter C

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2018
Messages
4,514
Location
GWR land
OpenTrainTimes is showing the two "berths" at either end of the Balcombe Tunnel (at signal 299 on the Down and Signal 302 on the Up) as being "LBSP" and "NOGO" respectively. On the Up, the next berth is empty, but is followed by three berths of "*X**" before a 9S00.
RealTimeTrains is also showing a lot of cancelled trains. Turns out the 9S00 from above is the 0506 Brighton - Cambridge Thamslink service - running 135 minutes late by Haywards Heath.
I hope the passengers on the stranded train are alright and get to a safe place soon (although I acknowledge this will be difficult).

-Peter

I understand this post is just a confirmation of the above, but it provides some detail on what's going on in terms on services/signals.
 

Sunset route

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
9S00 was the only stranded train (held at Balcombe station), but they were process of sending it back to Hayward’s Heath as a wrong direction move (against the signals) when I left work.

If the roads in the Crawley and East Grinstead area were anything to go by, then there was a hell of a lot of water that dropped last night.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
Isn't this the same area where Network Rail improved the drainage a few months ago ?
 

trainmania100

Established Member
Joined
8 Nov 2015
Messages
2,566
Location
Newhaven
Isn't this the same area where Network Rail improved the drainage a few months ago ?
Yes I was thinking that too, if I remember correctly they did all the tunnels causing lots of disruption for commuters as the line was shut during weekdays
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,355
Isn't this the same area where Network Rail improved the drainage a few months ago ?
Yes but they built the tunnel through an underground stream so it is always potentially bad, just how bad is the question. The improve drainage raised the problem level threshold significantly.
The M23 is also closed due to flooding less than a mile from the tunnel.
 

zoneking

Member
Joined
3 Jul 2009
Messages
268
Also landslip south of Guildford and multiple other flooding events in the South. This affects another route to Gatwick Airport - a lot of people will be travelling today.
 

Dr Hoo

Established Member
Joined
10 Nov 2015
Messages
3,913
Location
Hope Valley
9S00 was the only stranded train (held at Balcombe station), but they were process of sending it back to Hayward’s Heath as a wrong direction move (against the signals) when I left work.

Doesn’t Balcombe to Haywards Heath have bi-directional signalling any more?
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,404
Isn't this the same area where Network Rail improved the drainage a few months ago ?

The SE has had a lot of rain this week, especially over the last two days, with saturated ground following a wet autumn, and at some point even good drainage systems will become overwhelmed.

We had nearly two years of dry weather from 2017 to early 2019, I hope this isn't the start of two years of deluge.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,192
Location
St Albans
The SE has had a lot of rain this week, especially over the last two days, with saturated ground following a wet autumn, and at some point even good drainage systems will become overwhelmed.

We had nearly two years of dry weather from 2017 to early 2019, I hope this isn't the start of two years of deluge.
No, just a tightening of the climate change screw.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
The SE has had a lot of rain this week, especially over the last two days, with saturated ground following a wet autumn, and at some point even good drainage systems will become overwhelmed.

We had nearly two years of dry weather from 2017 to early 2019, I hope this isn't the start of two years of deluge.

Oh yes, I'm well aware of how wet it is !. My point was simply that Network Rail said that they were addressing the well known drainage issues, only a few momths ago. To a layman it would seem that they didn't make much allowance for a spell of heavier rain.
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,404
Oh yes, I'm well aware of how wet it is !. My point was simply that Network Rail said that they were addressing the well known drainage issues, only a few momths ago. To a layman it would seem that they didn't make much allowance for a spell of heavier rain.
It doesn't matter whether it is flooding, heavy snow, high winds, or drought, someone will always say "it's only a bit of wind, rain, snow, you expect hot weather in summer, Southern softies, they just get on with it up north, country X Y Z copes fine blah blah blah".
 
Last edited by a moderator:

RichJF

Member
Joined
2 Nov 2012
Messages
1,099
Location
Sussex
There's also reports of flooding on the Uckfield line between Crowborough & Uckfield.
This is one of the worst years I can remember in my short life for rain & unsettled weather. I can't actually remember the last day without even a shower in it. It's killed my poor motorbike too (water in electrics).

There's flood warnings for the River Mole so I wouldn't be surprised to see floods near Dorking & Leatherhead if it carries on raining.

Maidstone to Strood also closed due to fallen trees/floods.

Hastings Line also flooded at Frant so severe disruption there too.
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
8,677
As someone who works in railway drainage & flooding prevention I can tell you that any work we do is simply to reduce the likelihood. You don't beat mother nature!
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
As someone who works in railway drainage & flooding prevention I can tell you that any work we do is simply to reduce the likelihood. You don't beat mother nature!

That's fair comment but I don't think it's unreasonable for a layman to be asking questions.
 

Jona26

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2013
Messages
273
Location
West Sussex
And stopped again due to the traction current having been switched off again. The driver of 13:00 VSTP from Brighton to Gatwick (currently held at Haywards Heath) has just announced that hopefully it will only be about 10 mins.
 

Dr Hoo

Established Member
Joined
10 Nov 2015
Messages
3,913
Location
Hope Valley
On level ground in a tunnel do you suppose that floodwater will stay neatly on only one of two tracks?
My comment was not directly related to the flooding. I wasn’t clear how a train could be moved ‘against the signals’ on a bi-directionally signalled line (unless the flooding had taken out the signalling of course).
 

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,404
There's also reports of flooding on the Uckfield line between Crowborough & Uckfield.
This is one of the worst years I can remember in my short life for rain & unsettled weather. I can't actually remember the last day without even a shower in it. It's killed my poor motorbike too (water in electrics).

Winter 2013/14 was bad for flooding and landslides. I remember a landslip near Ockley and because of logistical difficulties, it took months for the line to be fully operational. It took a while for the line at Dawlish to be repaired and operational as well.

Autumn 2000 was the wettest on record for England and Wales, there was widespread flooding back then. A windstorm at the end of October didn't help matters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_United_Kingdom_winter_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autumn_2000_Western_Europe_floods
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,518
I gave up caring what a "layman" would say a long time ago. It doesn't matter whether it is flooding, heavy snow, high winds, or drought, someone will always say "it's only a bit of wind,rain,snow, you expect hot weather in summer, Southern softies, they just get on with it up north, country X Y Z copes fine blah blah blah". There is often an inverse correlation between gobbiness and the level of intelligence.

Thank you. Given that the work to improve drainage was so major, and so recent, it only took somebody to give a reasoned response as to why it still can't cope. Nobody has, as far as I know, suggested that the current level of rainfall couldn't have been foreseen just a few months ago.
Anyway, sorry to ask a simple question of a member of rail staff.
 

Edders23

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2018
Messages
549
everywhere seems to be saturated at the moment springs popping up all over so it is simply something that needs to be dealt with as best as can be. With the best will in the world you cannot prevent flooding the best you can do is alleviate the risk and deal with it when it happens
 

Sunset route

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
9S00 was the only stranded train (held at Balcombe station), but they were process of sending it back to Hayward’s Heath as a wrong direction move (against the signals) when I left work.

If the roads in the Crawley and East Grinstead area were anything to go by, then there was a hell of a lot of water that dropped last night.


Doesn’t Balcombe to Haywards Heath have bi-directional signalling any more?


My comment was not directly related to the flooding. I wasn’t clear how a train could be moved ‘against the signals’ on a bi-directionally signalled line (unless the flooding had taken out the signalling of course).

Yes it does, but you can only bring it into use when the whole section of line is clear of trains, it’s part of the conditions imposed by the interlocking.

But since both lines were effected it would of made little difference anyway in this instance.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,340
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
As a matter of interest, at what point does a third rail route cease to be operable in flood conditions? I saw photos of Mitcham Junction where the water was covering the sleepers but was way below the insulating pots. When is it considered there's a risk of juice shorting - as soon as surface water appears, or at a set point in relation to the pots?
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,340
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Yes it does, but you can only bring it into use when the whole section of line is clear of trains, it’s part of the conditions imposed by the interlocking.

But since both lines were effected it would of made little difference anyway in this instance.
Given the need for the whole section to be clear of trains before introducing it, how often is the bi-directional capability actually used here? Do safety requirements permit engineering work on one line while trains run on the other, for example (I imagine not)?
 

2HAP

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2016
Messages
467
Location
Hadlow
As a matter of interest, at what point does a third rail route cease to be operable in flood conditions? I saw photos of Mitcham Junction where the water was covering the sleepers but was way below the insulating pots. When is it considered there's a risk of juice shorting - as soon as surface water appears, or at a set point in relation to the pots?

It depends on the stock. 3SUBs certainly had no difficulty with water over the third rail.
3SUB in flood.jpg
 

daveshah

Member
Joined
1 Sep 2018
Messages
115
As a matter of interest, at what point does a third rail route cease to be operable in flood conditions? I saw photos of Mitcham Junction where the water was covering the sleepers but was way below the insulating pots. When is it considered there's a risk of juice shorting - as soon as surface water appears, or at a set point in relation to the pots?

Not sure what the exact level was, but I noticed that during the flooding around Sway on the SWML the other night, CrossCountry Voyagers were able to keep running at a reduced speed, it was only the SWR 3rd rail stock that couldn't run.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top