Scotrail to withdraw paper Flexipass from End of October

Well I am now using a Smartcard (My Club 50 one) for my purchase of flexipasses.

Catching a "pre-barrier" service from Haymarket to Falkirk Grahamston the guard sometimes puts the card in the machine and sometimes not. I'm not sure what they see on their handheld device but no one has asked me to buy a separate ticket as I have not "clocked in". If I don't "clock out" at FKG no deduction is made from the balance of journeys remaining.

Why is this happening ? Can't the Guard knock a journey off on their device ? Does it not automatically do that if you have not swiped on entry at Haymarket?

Half the time the guards devices malfunction and they give up !!

Isn't there a reader for you to validate your smart card even so there isn't a barrier. Surely you need to tap on that validator to clock in and clock out, as occurs elsewhere in the country?

smsm1 said:

Isn't there a reader for you to validate your smart card even so there isn't a barrier. Surely you need to tap on that validator to clock in and clock out, as occurs elsewhere in the country?

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There is no reader at Haymarket only Barriers but it seems when open they don't register the smartcard even if you tap them.

I can't understand why the guards reader is not picking this up.

Lack of training on what to look for in the app I suspect. The Scotrail Android app will show the last tap in or out. There's also another app called smart ticket checker by Rambus that provides the details of the most recent journeys, and tickets on your card.

When the barriers at Ipswich and Cambridge North (both stations run by Abellio in another franchise) are open, as long as there is a green arrow they pick up barcode and smart card tickets. If there's a red cross then they won't accept any tickets. The most annoying type of barrier with luggage, bike, or buggy is a single wide gate such as at Ipswich with the flip flop. It's just about to accept the ticket, and then it flips to the other side, so have to wait about 5 to 10 seconds to try again.

Smaller stations with no barriers have readers, even very rural stations in Scotland that I've been to have them.

Looking through some of my photos from a previous trip up to Scotland, I've got an example at Ardlui, which is a pretty rural station:


Here's an example from Manningtree, similar design:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=...&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=k2SJxDe-5m_kv0F4aJOwKA

I'm sure I recall someone saying Altnabreac now has one!

I'm sure Corrour had one in the hut on the station platform, but sadly I don't have a photo of it.

Surely what's being described is that at stations with barriers, there may not be any additional readers?

I too have had the problem that when the barriers are left open for any reason (eg early morning when not staffed) you can't tap in/out - and sometimes that screws up the record of journeys on your smartcard - sometimes that is to your benefit (ie no journey is recorded) but other times its not (system seems to get confused and starts deducting extra journeys).

A colleague was told by a ScotRail conductor that the system was set up to deduct two journeys if you didn't tap in and subsequently tapped out or were checked on the train (although only barriers know which direction you're travelling!) - the intention being to penalise those chancing it by not tapping in at open stations, but not sure whether that's true.

I was also told in an email from ScotRail that conductors can perform a "tap in" if you explain that the reader wasn't working, but since I had that advice I haven't had the need to ask.

My experience is that if you religiously tap in and tap out then all goes well, but as soon as you miss a tap (sometimes through no fault of your own) then the system goes haywire. I also had a problem with multiple products on the card, as the system clearly couldn't work out which to apply - on one occasion I had a Glasgow-Edinburgh day return as well as my flexipass, and it deducted journeys from my flexipass when I touched in at Glasgow Queen Street to travel to Edinburgh. On another occasion I had a season and a flexipass, and it deducted journeys from the flexipass even though the season was valid. (As an aside, seasons can't cope with validity at intermediate stations, which is a pain).

Like most things Abellio ScotRail related - a good idea really poorly implemented in my experience. Surely there's better experience elsewhere that Abellio could have copied?

Fleetwood Boy said:

My experience is that if you religiously tap in and tap out then all goes well, but as soon as you miss a tap (sometimes through no fault of your own) then the system goes haywire. I also had a problem with multiple products on the card, as the system clearly couldn't work out which to apply - on one occasion I had a Glasgow-Edinburgh day return as well as my flexipass, and it deducted journeys from my flexipass when I touched in at Glasgow Queen Street to travel to Edinburgh. On another occasion I had a season and a flexipass, and it deducted journeys from the flexipass even though the season was valid. (As an aside, seasons can't cope with validity at intermediate stations, which is a pain).

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This will explain why Greater Anglia say you need separate smart cards for the Flexi passes vs other tickets. If you have both peak and off peak Flexi passes, you also need separate smart cards for them, as the system isn't clever enough to deduct from the correct balance.

smsm1 said:

This will explain why Greater Anglia say you need separate smart cards for the Flexi passes vs other tickets. If you have both peak and off peak Flexi passes, you also need separate smart cards for them, as the system isn't clever enough to deduct from the correct balance.

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I no longer use it for multiple products - but when I did try, it was after being assured by ScotRail that the system would work out which one was optimal, so I didn't need to worry. My, how I laugh now at that advice ....

There are two systems to check smartcards:-

1) via Star Mobile devices - this can read & write to the card, i.e. it can check that you have a valid product & record the check onto your card. If you have not tapped in or out it can also do this. It will subtract two flexis for passengers who have e.g. not tapped out the previous evening nor tapped in the following morning. There are plans for a further "automatic" deduction (penalty) for non compliance but this has not been implemented yet.

Star Mobile can also retail products direct to the smartcard as required.

2) via the ScotRail Inspect app on mobile phones. This is read only but is very quick in comparison to Star Mobile - this can check for valid tickets and see the last tap in/out (or indeed if the card was checked on board via Star Mobile). If a flexi is found "untapped" a transfer to Star Mobile to deduct one is required (or charge a single fare instead). One benefit of ScotRail Inspect is that it can upload pending products to the smartcard that have recently been purchased.

Each system has its benefits & drawbacks but crucially they are building up a picture of passenger behaviour (or in some cases a lack of behaviour) - non compliance is being logged so passengers are strongly advised to tap in & tap out. If they experience any issues with the readers (NB the non availability of open barriers to tap in & out is a known issue) contacting staff at the earliest opportunity removes the risk of negative allegations.

reb0118 said:

There are two systems to check smartcards:-

1) via Star Mobile devices - this can read & write to the card, i.e. it can check that you have a valid product & record the check onto your card. If you have not tapped in or out it can also do this. It will subtract two flexis for passengers who have e.g. not tapped out the previous evening nor tapped in the following morning. There are plans for a further "automatic" deduction (penalty) for non compliance but this has not been implemented yet.

Star Mobile can also retail products direct to the smartcard as required.

2) via the ScotRail Inspect app on mobile phones. This is read only but is very quick in comparison to Star Mobile - this can check for valid tickets and see the last tap in/out (or indeed if the card was checked on board via Star Mobile). If a flexi is found "untapped" a transfer to Star Mobile to deduct one is required (or charge a single fare instead). One benefit of ScotRail Inspect is that it can upload pending products to the smartcard that have recently been purchased.

Each system has its benefits & drawbacks but crucially they are building up a picture of passenger behaviour (or in some cases a lack of behaviour) - non compliance is being logged so passengers are strongly advised to tap in & tap out. If they experience any issues with the readers (NB the non availability of open barriers to tap in & out is a known issue) contacting staff at the earliest opportunity removes the risk of negative allegations.

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that’s interesting but I have seen no advertising about the penalties you talk about so wonder how legally enforceable they are. Like all things associated with Abellio sounds like a reasonable idea poorly implemented.

Fleetwood Boy said:

that’s interesting but I have seen no advertising about the penalties you talk about so wonder how legally enforceable they are. Like all things associated with Abellio sounds like a reasonable idea poorly implemented.

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It all sounds very good but no one has said anything to me about not tapping in when I have boarded an early morning service at Haymarket when the barriers are open. Also no journeys have been docked from my card when this happens. Sometimes they don't even check it.

They should install card readers at Haymarket and Waverley if they expect people to tap in and out early doors.

Will be interesting to see what happens over the 27/28/29 December when rail replacement services are operating for part and or all of the journey between Falkirk and Edinburgh.

Butts said:

They should install card readers at Haymarket and Waverley if they expect people to tap in and out early doors.

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The barriers should be set to open but still allow taps like elsewhere in the country.

smsm1 said:

The barriers should be set to open but still allow taps like elsewhere in the country.

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Often they have all got red x's on when open.

Butts said:

Often they have all got red x's on when open.

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Then the barriers are getting left in the wrong mode for smart ticketing to work correctly. They don't need an extra validator, just a bit of training to set the barriers in the correct way.

Fleetwood Boy said:

I have seen no advertising about the penalties you talk about so wonder how legally enforceable they are.

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The penalty is the same as is current with a paper flexi. You forfeit the undated one and use another. If you have no more flexis you are liable for the single fare due.

These penalties are set out in the terms & conditions that you agree to when purchasing and are no different from the rules regarding dating rover tickets or staff travel cards.

In practice with paper tickets most onboard staff in Scotland would just date any undated flexis themselves and I agree with smartcards that the checking of them is very poor. It can therefore come as a shock to find a member of staff who not only knows the rules but who also enforces them too.

I believe that new ticket machines (zebras) are in the offing. We shall see if they can improve the checking ratio.

Isn’t Zebra the printer brand?

Edinburgh Waverley now has a Card Reader installed near Platform 19 so it won't be long until Haymarket has one.

The "Yellow Peril" is spreading and with it the excuse that the barriers were all open and in red cross mode vanishing rapidly.

The Flexipass has just become less Flexible