Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Wasn't that many when I used it - 6 at most. I wonder if they add a couple over summer/take them off in winter?
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Night Riviera Changes: Pick Up/Set Down only in Cornwall
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Wasn't that many when I used it - 6 at most. I wonder if they add a couple over summer/take them off in winter?
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Goldfish62
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A specific design of internal handle for Mk 3s has been around for a while. I suspect the reason for not adopting it was the prevailing phasing out of slam doors.
There's around double the number of coaches that you suggest, which at four doors per coach would be around 80 handles.
it’s not been that short for a long time. 5 sleeper cars, buffet car, 2 seated cars is standArd year round
BucksBones
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Are there any plans in place to replace this ageing stock?
No. It has just been refitted inside.
BucksBones
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Fair enough. Well the ORR clearly see the droplights as a big problem so if the stock is there to stay it seems sensible to me to put the interior handles in. I really can't believe that a small modification like that to such a small fleet would be all that expensive.
Steve Harris
Member
Thats the second best joke I have heard all year.
By the way, I am actually a Mechanical Engineer by trade, I'm guessing your not, otherwise you wouldn't of made such a claim (there is a lot less man hours and materials in the mod compared to new doors).
nedchester
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It's all over the top safety paranoia that pervades in this country.
Oh and the simplest and cheapest modification is to fit window bars.
Oh and the simplest and cheapest modification is to fit window bars.
There is a very good chance that charter Mk1s and Mk2s are not on the network after 31 March 2023. They only operate under a derogation which needs ORR approval. We know the views of the ORR about these carriages and the risks associated with their operation.
It could easily be the case that the Night Riviera is the only train authorised to operate with slam door coaches on the network after 1 April 2023.
221129
Established Member
For the last 6 or so years I've been using it It's always been load 7 or 8.
221129
Established Member
Interior handles are likely a non starter due to the risk of accidentally opening or putting the door on the catch.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
The internal door handle design has indeed been around for a while - many years in fact.
When built, coaches up to and including Mk3s HSTs had internal handles, but these were removed after a number of fatal instances of them being opened at speed.
Such incidents could not happen now, of course, because of CDL, and one imagines it would not be difficult to reverse the modification.
Edited to remove stray text above quote
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Steve Harris
Member
Have you been on the sherry ?? That's why we have Central Door Locking. You know, that pin which goes into the door and on MkIII's is seperate from the door handle mechanism.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not quite sure why the snipe rather than a simple answer, nor am I sure why my profession is of any relevance as there is a wide range of experience on the Forum, but going back to being sensible about it...
I assume you refer to the inside handle mod? Is this approved for use? If so, it would clearly be cheaper, but if not it could potentially be quite expensive?
221129
Established Member
I'm well aware of the CDL but if you think that bolt will take the full weight of a person falling against it several times in a row then I think its you that might have been on the sherry.
221129
Established Member
If that was the case it would have been done by now...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This time you are incorrect, alongside the unnecessary snipe. The CDL bolt doesn't prevent the door from going onto the latch, it does prevent it fully opening, though. No doubt it could be modified so as not to allow that, but that'd cost again.
Steve Harris
Member
Nope hate the stuff, sherry I mean. However, in your argument you never mentioned about people(s) falling against a door just being held with CDL. But you did make a statement which was untrue though, which has been pointed out by other members besides me.
HamworthyGoods
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There seems to be lots of going round in circles here trying to find a solution such as internal door handles for a problem which doesn’t exist.
The Cornish Local service was enhanced at the December timetable change, the ORR were concerned about the usage of the drop-light fitted stock and ask for mitigation’s to be put in place by removing some traffic viewed as higher risk.
Passengers travelling within Cornwall now have an alternative service in the morning and in the evening a cross country service around 20 minutes after the sleeper. This also has the benefit of removing some of the antisocial behaviour which has featured on the sleeper of an evening from local traffic.
The Cornish Local service was enhanced at the December timetable change, the ORR were concerned about the usage of the drop-light fitted stock and ask for mitigation’s to be put in place by removing some traffic viewed as higher risk.
Passengers travelling within Cornwall now have an alternative service in the morning and in the evening a cross country service around 20 minutes after the sleeper. This also has the benefit of removing some of the antisocial behaviour which has featured on the sleeper of an evening from local traffic.
father_jack
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You'd have to reach out, push down the handle and then ram the door while still pushing down the handle.... The bolt would probably still hold.
221129
Established Member
With an internal handle why would you be reaching out?
father_jack
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Apologies I see your context now.
Steve Harris
Member
Have corrected the quote for accuracy, or I could say that you are sniping now. I duely apologise as I forgot it can go onto the latch but a door can't be opened, if the CDL is working correctly and it's not being rammed by the proverbial heard of elephants.
And by the way that wasn't a snipe, it is called humor or banter. Something the PC brigade will no doubt ban soon and everbody will look miserable and being diagnosed as depressed.
Steve Harris
Member
Be sensible... Well, as we are discussing the possibility of fitting a inside door handle.. then yes. That is what I was referring to. What did you think I was referring to??
As regards its approval... no idea. Yes it could be expensive for approval but it also could be cheaper than building new doors.
Common sense and experience tells me there should be less materials and man hours in fitting an inside handle compared to building a door from scratch and fitting it. But of course as you stated you have to have design approval, so unless you know the costs involved and willing to post me a fully costed estimate, then I'll politely disagree with you.
cactustwirly
Established Member
A long time
(passengers travel to Waterloo vice Paddington because of an Xmas blockade)Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Which is fair enough - I wouldn't know enough about costs of railway approvals to know if, if the handle is not approved, it would be cheaper to do that or to fit a more expensive but already approved solution of a power-operated door system. I do know "railway inflation" often hits this kind of thing.
Clarence Yard
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I think the ORR would have a minor fit if anyone suggested interior door handles, whatever the system. Too much “baggage” from the past incidents, I’m afraid.
Given the likely cost of fitting power doors to the entire train, you would probably go for a replacement Mk 5 fleet, a decision that is likely to have to be taken sooner rather than later anyway. The Mk 3 fleet can’t go on for ever, even if it is good for a few more years yet
Given the likely cost of fitting power doors to the entire train, you would probably go for a replacement Mk 5 fleet, a decision that is likely to have to be taken sooner rather than later anyway. The Mk 3 fleet can’t go on for ever, even if it is good for a few more years yet
If I remember correctly, a GWR press release after a droplight related accident said that the HSTs were going and that the night Riviera stock would have locks fitted to the window which would be released at the platforms. I'll try and find the article now. I personally enjoy leaning out of the window as the train rolls into the platform slowly but of course would not do so at speed.
Edit: Here's the quote:
“From the end of December we will no longer operate this type of train and are working to introduce automatic locks on windows on our Sleeper Service.”
And here's the article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...-news/gwr-could-done-more-prevent-3434417.amp
Edit: Here's the quote:
“From the end of December we will no longer operate this type of train and are working to introduce automatic locks on windows on our Sleeper Service.”
And here's the article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.de...-news/gwr-could-done-more-prevent-3434417.amp
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Sleepy
Established Member
Surely it would be more cost effective to roster a 2nd guard Plymouth - Penzance to supervise school children in seated coaches (with BTP presence on odd trips to concentrate minds) rather than running another service as I know dispatch takes place in sleeper coaches ??
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