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Rail-ferry connections - present and future

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berneyarms

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From what I can remember about the routes I have travelled on:

Fishguard Harbour - Rosslare Europort
Trains pull into the platform (operated by Stena Line and not Network Rail) alongside the berth for the ferry. You walk through a small customs area and ticket check before walking up a precariously steep ramp onto the ship (now by bus apparently). At Rosslare Europort depending on what berth you arrive in you either walk across a bridge from the ferry to the terminal or take a short bus ride back via a Garda checkpoint. The walk to the station is well signposted but is not covered. Trains didn't connect with the boats.

Holyhead - Dublin Port
Train arrives into platform. Walk forward straight to ticket check, bag drop and customs check. Take a bus to the ferry. At Dublin you walk off the ferry, down a ramp, into the port. A Dublin Bus ferries passengers from the Port to Connolly Station or Busaras for the Luas.

Cairnryan - Belfast
The train takes you to Ayr where Stena Line run a bus to Cairnryan Port. You alight outside the terminal and go through a ticket check. Walk to the cafe waiting area before an escalator takes you up to the link span. Walk onto the boat. At Belfast Port a shuttle bus operated by Translink Metro (route 96 I think) then operates into Belfast city centre.

The best way from getting from Glasgow to Belfast though is via Hannons Coaches. They operate two services a day from Buchannan St Bus Station to Belfast Donegal Square for £29 each way.
Iarnród Eireann trains at Rosslare have connected with all Stena Line sailings since the May 2017 ferry timetable change (except the 08:00 sailing to Fishguard).

Surely at this stage over 2.5 years later, people should at least recognise that.
 
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Steddenm

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Iarnród Eireann trains at Rosslare have connected with all Stena Line sailings since the May 2017 ferry timetable change (except the 08:00 sailing to Fishguard).

Surely at this stage over 2.5 years later, people should at least recognise that.

I haven't been for a few years and used to get the overnight boat from Fishguard Harbour.
 

GrimShady

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Doesn't really matter that there's no station near Dunkirk port; DFDS haven't carried foot passengers on that route (nor their Calais route) for years. The Eastern Docks at Dover have the pedestrian link span over the vehicle one; P&Os fleet using Dover are built with a pedestrian link out over the rear . At Calais it's a moveable boarder on the starboard side (bows first on the french side); as far as I can see Dover, Delft and Dunkerque Seaways don't even have a door to facilitate this (Calais Seaways does, being an older boat- indeed Calais Seaways under previous operators carried foot passengers using the linkspan to the rear at Dover)

They don't and were never designed to. Norfolkline was specifically a vehicle only service.
 

AlbertBeale

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Apparently, the sail-rail link between Glasgow and Belfast (involving a bus connection, since the place the boat docks on the Scottish side moved from Stranraer to Cairnryan) has reduced to only one through-bookable connection a day. Other boats still run; other trains still run; but for these others, there's no connecting bus and no through tickets... (See https://twitter.com/seatsixtyone/status/1206504081809969153).

What a silly situation. Well done Mark Smith for pursuing this.
 

dutchflyer

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But are there through coaches on those ferries? Giving even an uninterrupted ride from Glasgow to Belfast?
 

BigCj34

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But are there through coaches on those ferries? Giving even an uninterrupted ride from Glasgow to Belfast?

National express does it in 6 hours. Sailrail doesn't compete well against that, given the bus from Ayr and no onward transport from Belfast Port. It doesn't help for those coming from intermediate stations and the need to make multimodal journeys though.

It surely would make sense to have Larne services in Sailrail as Larne Harbour actually has a station.
 
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berneyarms

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But are there through coaches on those ferries? Giving even an uninterrupted ride from Glasgow to Belfast?

There are three return coach trips available each day between Belfast and Glasgow operated by Citylink/Ulsterbus using Stena Line. The coach doesn’t travel on the ferry though.
 

bangor-toad

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Apparently, the sail-rail link between Glasgow and Belfast (involving a bus connection, since the place the boat docks on the Scottish side moved from Stranraer to Cairnryan) has reduced to only one through-bookable connection a day.

Oh no. It's finally happened.
The SailRail coach was always very empty though. Most of the the times I've used it there were less than 10 people on the coach. I'd always feared that someone would notice the loadings and make this decision.
Hopefully, at the very least, tickets will be made available on the 7:30am sailing out of Belfast and the 7:30pm out of Cairnryan with you having to make your own way between Cairnryan ferry and Stranraer station. The short taxi ride isn't that bad.
I've already asked Stena about this (no reply yet) but if you care why not ask too?
Without this option it'll be impossible to use SailRail to and from quite large parts of the UK. :(

But are there through coaches on those ferries? Giving even an uninterrupted ride from Glasgow to Belfast?
Hannons coaches run coaches twice a day from Lurgan to Belfast onto the ferry and then onto Glasgow.
They use the 7:30am & 10:30am sailings from Belfast and the 3:30pm and 7:30pm sailings on the way back.
https://hannoncoach.com/belfast-glasgow-timetable/

Mr Toad
 

BigCj34

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Oh no. It's finally happened.
The SailRail coach was always very empty though. Most of the the times I've used it there were less than 10 people on the coach. I'd always feared that someone would notice the loadings and make this decision.
Hopefully, at the very least, tickets will be made available on the 7:30am sailing out of Belfast and the 7:30pm out of Cairnryan with you having to make your own way between Cairnryan ferry and Stranraer station. The short taxi ride isn't that bad.
I've already asked Stena about this (no reply yet) but if you care why not ask too?
Without this option it'll be impossible to use SailRail to and from quite large parts of the UK. :(


Hannons coaches run coaches twice a day from Lurgan to Belfast onto the ferry and then onto Glasgow.
They use the 7:30am & 10:30am sailings from Belfast and the 3:30pm and 7:30pm sailings on the way back.
https://hannoncoach.com/belfast-glasgow-timetable/

Mr Toad

How are you supposed to get to Belfast centre with Sailrail? Also would it make sense to offer the option for Larne services as well (which actually has a station)? If the Ayr bus has been canned it might make sense to have passengers use local buses from Stranraer to Cairnryan with Sailrail ticket acceptance, with stops at Stranraer station and increasing services if necessary. Clearly no railway lines are going to be built to Cairnryan or Belfast Port anytime soon but work needs to be done to capture more of the Glasgow-Belfast market.
 

Meerkat

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Surely no one is going to get the slow train to Stranraer then the bus back to Cairnryan?!
Need a cross platform transfer to a decent coach from Ayr, unless they extend the electric to Girvan or just to a new Ayr Parkway by the hospital (and then shut the rest in a sensible world)
 

Flying Snail

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Hannons are already between 30 minutes and an hour quicker than sailrail to/from Belfast with Ulsterbus/Citylink 10-15 mns faster to Glasgow and 50 faster from Glasgow, this is partly due to the Ayr-Cairnryan coach being used for dropping off and picking up ferry passengers so the connection is timed loosely, particularly from Ayr.

TBH considering it is a through coach with no changes or baggage transfers as well as getting motorist rather than foot passenger scum treatment at the ports I would chose Hannons over rail or Citylink every time.

Admittedly sailrail being cutback is not ideal for those wanting to travel to other rail locations though, mainly due to the walkup through fares being good value.

Connecting to Stranraer would only be a niche market for rail enthusiasts, the added journey time would be extreme.

As it is I can see no mention of the shuttle service to/from Stranraer and Stagecoach have done a marvellous job in ensuring their 2 hourly 358/360 just misses connecting with the 2 hourly ferry service in all directions.
 

BigCj34

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Surely no one is going to get the slow train to Stranraer then the bus back to Cairnryan?!
Need a cross platform transfer to a decent coach from Ayr, unless they extend the electric to Girvan or just to a new Ayr Parkway by the hospital (and then shut the rest in a sensible world)
Well if they're going to cancel the bus from Ayr then integrating the Stranraer Cairnryan bus which operates anyway would allow Sailrail passengers to continue to have a choice of crossings. However I don't know how much time it would add?

The only reason to use Sailrail is the integrated ticket with the rest of the network, rather than the practicality due to the changeover at Ayr.
 

30907

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Well if they're going to cancel the bus from Ayr then integrating the Stranraer Cairnryan bus which operates anyway would allow Sailrail passengers to continue to have a choice of crossings. However I don't know how much time it would add?

The only reason to use Sailrail is the integrated ticket with the rest of the network, rather than the practicality due to the changeover at Ayr.
The man on seat 61 has tweeted that the tickets are valid on any sailing and suggests a taxi to/from Stranraer.
 

BigCj34

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The man on seat 61 has tweeted that the tickets are valid on any sailing and suggests a taxi to/from Stranraer.
Ah. Still an additional expense anyway compared to a bus, which runs anyway and just needs to tweak its times.
 

Kimi

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Surely no one is going to get the slow train to Stranraer then the bus back to Cairnryan?!
Need a cross platform transfer to a decent coach from Ayr, unless they extend the electric to Girvan or just to a new Ayr Parkway by the hospital (and then shut the rest in a sensible world)
I did almost exactly this (from Belfast) this summer - with bicycle. The bus service to Ayr does not accept bikes, so a 5 mile ride to Stranraer was our only option at the UK end. The grip on the train accepted the tickets - not sure if he should as technically they're valid from Ayr on the train only perhaps..
 

AndrewE

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To be pedantic the ferries go from Salford!
They do, but the boat is (was) a ferry and it does sail from Greater Manchester. I thought it was close enough to be worth making the joke... although in my defence Wikipedia says
Manchester docks were a series of nine docks in Salford, Stretford and Manchester at the east end of the Manchester Ship Canal in North West England.[1][2][3] They formed part of the Port of Manchester from 1894 until their closure in 1982.
(and maybe I wrote it to advertise the trips too: it is well worth doing - once!)
 

AlbertBeale

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Apparently Ramsgate-Ostend ferries are to return, though not necessarily for passengers initially. I didn't realise that was the case until this thread - first started a couple of months back - was revived just yesterday:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ramsgate-to-ostend-ferry-reinstated.155678/

I've posted on it specifically in relation to the possibility of it becoming a rail-ferry route again - which therefore seems relevant to this thread. See
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ramsgate-to-ostend-ferry-reinstated.155678/#post-4351097
 

AlbertBeale

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Apparently Ramsgate-Ostend ferries are to return, though not necessarily for passengers initially. I didn't realise that was the case until this thread - first started a couple of months back - was revived just yesterday:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ramsgate-to-ostend-ferry-reinstated.155678/

I've posted on it specifically in relation to the possibility of it becoming a rail-ferry route again - which therefore seems relevant to this thread. See
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ramsgate-to-ostend-ferry-reinstated.155678/#post-4351097

Woops - correction - that one-off initial posting was 2 years ago ... too much seasonal mind-numbing been happening [to me]. Sorry for the confusion. As far as I can tell, that Ramsgate-Ostend ferry isn't currently running ... certainly not for passengers anyway... I'll rein in my excitement levels.
 

bkhtele

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In the UK rail connections to ferry ports may be poor, but there are several examples where coach services (mainly National Express) operate directly to the door - Dover Eastern Docks, Portsmouth Continental Ferry Terminal have direct links from London Victoria, and Cairnryan has direct links to Glasgow, Edinburgh and a number of English cities (through coach & ferry tickets are available between mainland UK locations and Belfast City Centre). Some people are happy to trade off the slower journey time, knowing they will be taken directly to the terminal and not have to catch shuttle buses, take taxis or lug their baggage across an unfamiliar town.
If politicians etc are serious about making train/ferries more attractive v the plane: a combination of train/coaches/ferry seems to me to be the most cost effective & attractive to the average customer.
e.g to board a train anywhere in the UK then take a coach from Ayr (ideally Stranraer) drive the coach straight into the ferry. Leave your cases on the coach enjoy on board facilities. At Belfast drive off the ferry to Belfast city centre and onward train connections....
The same could apply at Dover rail station direct via the ferry to Calais or Boulogne for onwards train connections. This could be done at a fraction of the cost of major infrastructure development at ports to allow for the idea walk off the ferry onto the train. Can't imagine it will ever happen :(
 

AlbertBeale

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If politicians etc are serious about making train/ferries more attractive v the plane: a combination of train/coaches/ferry seems to me to be the most cost effective & attractive to the average customer.
e.g to board a train anywhere in the UK then take a coach from Ayr (ideally Stranraer) drive the coach straight into the ferry. Leave your cases on the coach enjoy on board facilities. At Belfast drive off the ferry to Belfast city centre and onward train connections....
The same could apply at Dover rail station direct via the ferry to Calais or Boulogne for onwards train connections. This could be done at a fraction of the cost of major infrastructure development at ports to allow for the idea walk off the ferry onto the train. Can't imagine it will ever happen :(

I see that it has an advantage (cost-wise) over reconnecting rail to ports properly - but the economics of a coach which takes people on a 5- or 10-minute drive from a station to, and on board, a ferry at each end, but sits there on the ferry doing nothing for most of its time, probably doesn't make a lot of economic sense as far as utilisation of the coach is concerned.

Incidentally, I don't think that most politicians currently are serious [about taking sufficient steps to deal with the ecoloical crisis].
 

AndrewE

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I see that it has an advantage (cost-wise) over reconnecting rail to ports properly - but the economics of a coach which takes people on a 5- or 10-minute drive from a station to, and on board, a ferry at each end, but sits there on the ferry doing nothing for most of its time, probably doesn't make a lot of economic sense as far as utilisation of the coach is concerned.

Incidentally, I don't think that most politicians currently are serious [about taking sufficient steps to deal with the ecoloical crisis].
It might be the quickest and safest way of loading the passengers onto the ferry with their luggage - compared with people (especially oldies and the infirm) tottering up a vehicle ramp towing their cases. The coach and driver might be a sound investment compared to the costs of delaying a ferry or having lots of staff stewarding people through a port area - which are often security-restricted.
 

AlbertBeale

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It might be the quickest and safest way of loading the passengers onto the ferry with their luggage - compared with people (especially oldies and the infirm) tottering up a vehicle ramp towing their cases. The coach and driver might be a sound investment compared to the costs of delaying a ferry or having lots of staff stewarding people through a port area - which are often security-restricted.

Yes - I take that point. Maybe, on balance, it would work for short-ish crossings. Certainly it'd be better than the complete lack of interconnection in some places [eg Dover-Calais], though poor compared with the excellent rail-boat interconnections years back [such as Dover Western Docks].
 

furnessvale

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I see that it has an advantage (cost-wise) over reconnecting rail to ports properly - but the economics of a coach which takes people on a 5- or 10-minute drive from a station to, and on board, a ferry at each end, but sits there on the ferry doing nothing for most of its time, probably doesn't make a lot of economic sense as far as utilisation of the coach is concerned.
It wouldn't need to be a modern air conditioned Neoplan. The coach I used to get from Dover Priory to the docks was a battered old Leyland National but it got me there on a 10 min journey.
 

duesselmartin

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It might be the quickest and safest way of loading the passengers onto the ferry with their luggage - compared with people (especially oldies and the infirm) tottering up a vehicle ramp towing their cases. The coach and driver might be a sound investment compared to the costs of delaying a ferry or having lots of staff stewarding people through a port area - which are often security-restricted.
Rosslare Harbour of the 1990s was the way foreward. Gangways leading from the ship to the terminal with the train just beside it. But that has been willingly abandoned. Examples for that are Stranraer or Dun Laoghaire.
 

AlbertBeale

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Rosslare Harbour of the 1990s was the way foreward. Gangways leading from the ship to the terminal with the train just beside it. But that has been willingly abandoned. Examples for that are Stranraer or Dun Laoghaire.

Pretty much like Harwich or Ostend [if it had passenger ships that is!] now.
 

paul1609

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Apparently, the sail-rail link between Glasgow and Belfast (involving a bus connection, since the place the boat docks on the Scottish side moved from Stranraer to Cairnryan) has reduced to only one through-bookable connection a day. Other boats still run; other trains still run; but for these others, there's no connecting bus and no through tickets... (See https://twitter.com/seatsixtyone/status/1206504081809969153).

What a silly situation. Well done Mark Smith for pursuing this.
When based in Scotland I occasionally had to pick up/ drop off crew members at Cairnryan usually as a result of disruption to air services. From what I could see the rail bus to Ayr mostly carried fresh air especially during the winter months.
Does you expect Stena to continue to run buses for which there is at best little demand?
 

Ianno87

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When based in Scotland I occasionally had to pick up/ drop off crew members at Cairnryan usually as a result of disruption to air services. From what I could see the rail bus to Ayr mostly carried fresh air especially during the winter months.
Does you expect Stena to continue to run buses for which there is at best little demand?

Despite the protestations of the likes of Mr Seat 61, Stena have made an entirely rational commercial decision. The present arrangements has been the case for 8 years now, and clearly is a loss-making concern for them.

Even travelling from Glasgow to Belfast via this route at least takes half a day of commitment. Just too big a time commitment for many travellers, especially when a decent air fare can be obtained not very far in advance.

I however do enjoy taking the time to take surface routes, where time permits. But I'm aware I'm the minority here.
 

Flying Snail

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When based in Scotland I occasionally had to pick up/ drop off crew members at Cairnryan usually as a result of disruption to air services. From what I could see the rail bus to Ayr mostly carried fresh air especially during the winter months.
Does you expect Stena to continue to run buses for which there is at best little demand?

The good old "nobody was using it" excuse. Most often proceeded by making the service as user unfriendly as possible.
 
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