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LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

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Andyh82

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That would seem the obvious way to reverse out of this latest DfT screw up, if possible. Maybe not all 5 car sets but a good number of them.
That would be ideal, so I guess that’s the least likely to happen.

We already see 9 car services running as 10 cars and vice Versa which messes up seating allocations, how long before this happens and there are no staff or limited staff in one half, so no trolley, no buffet, no first class service..
 
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D6700

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We already see 9 car services running as 10 cars and vice Versa which messes up seating allocations, how long before this happens and there are no staff or limited staff in one half, so no trolley, no buffet, no first class service..
It already is, unfortunately.
 

Clansman

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Looking forward to the inevitable 5 car sub in on an Aberdeen or Inverness. In which case, a contingent queue system plan to prioritise passegers with reservations from England to stations north of Edinburgh wouldn't go a miss.
 

JonathanH

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Looking forward to the inevitable 5 car sub in on an Aberdeen or Inverness. In which case, a contingent queue system plan to prioritise passegers with reservations from England to stations north of Edinburgh wouldn't go a miss.

Is it inevitable? I would imagine that they would simply swap the unit at Kings Cross for a Leeds service, just as would happen in the past when a 91 ended up on the wrong diagram.
 

D6700

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I understand this morning's 08:05 Leeds to Kings Cross, which was diagrammed for and operated as a 5 car set, left many people behind at Grantham. After Grantham, it calls at Peterborough...
 

3973EXL

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5X98/Q98 Eastleigh - Acton - Doncaster
66726 801215

This, as far as I'm aware, leaves the following LNER units at Eastleigh
800101
801219
801220
 
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Failed Unit

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Seems to be generally ok today. No short formations listed. A few 91 substitutes. (Unfortunately one of those is a Harrogate service) but generally good. Sure the passengers heading to Edinburgh will prefer the 91 and DVT.

Maybe a positive that no-one wants the 91s. Not under as much pressure.
 

ryan125hst

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Just had a thought about guard's accommodation. Where is the guard's office on an Azuma? I don't recall seeing any obvious space for them on the 5 and 9 car layouts I've seen, or on any photos or videos of them. This is also true of GWR's IET's, TPE's Nova 1's and Hull Trains' Paragon fleet.

Does the guard use the back cab as an office? Or do they have to stay in the passenger saloon all the time now?
 

Kurolus Rex

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Just had a thought about guard's accommodation. Where is the guard's office on an Azuma? I don't recall seeing any obvious space for them on the 5 and 9 car layouts I've seen, or on any photos or videos of them. This is also true of GWR's IET's, TPE's Nova 1's and Hull Trains' Paragon fleet.

Does the guard use the back cab as an office? Or do they have to stay in the passenger saloon all the time now?

IIRC an LNER guard on Twitter said they used the rear cab.
 

43096

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LNER, same as GWR before it, does what it is told by the DfT - which is one (nine-car or 2x5 80x) in, one (91+Mk4s or HST) out. End of discussion.
And Hitachi don’t do what they are contracted to do.
 

D6700

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LNER, same as GWR before it, does what it is told by the DfT - which is one (nine-car or 2x5 80x) in, one (91+Mk4s or HST) out. End of discussion.
On that basis, one can only assume the DfT ordered LNER to reinstate some previously stored Mk4 coaches a few months ago?
 

Swimbar

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On that basis, one can only assume the DfT ordered LNER to reinstate some previously stored Mk4 coaches a few months ago?

I am not sure that the Dft would make the final decision in this case.
If the chief engineer at LNER requires the sets to provide a satisfactory service level and the 'bean counters' are happy there is a financial case then it will be a LNER decision?
 

D6700

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That's what I would have thought, but I don't know personally, whilst the language used in the originally quoted post was somewhat authoritarian!
 

jimm

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I am not sure that the Dft would make the final decision in this case.
If the chief engineer at LNER requires the sets to provide a satisfactory service level and the 'bean counters' are happy there is a financial case then it will be a LNER decision?

The DfT owns LNER, so who do you think makes the decisions?
 

Swimbar

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The DfT owns LNER, so who do you think makes the decisions?

I doubt that the Dft has any control over operational decisions made by LNER or any other TOC.
In a similar vein they clearly have no control over Northern or TPE!
 

Marton

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I wonder how often we can expect this locking out as on LNeR‘s website today

Facilities on the 14:00 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh due 18:25.
This is due to a shortage of on train staff.
There are no reservations on this service.
Additional Facilities Information:
The leading five cars will be locked out of use between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Did no one consider the staffing problems ?
 

Swimbar

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I wonder how often we can expect this locking out as on LNeR‘s website today

Facilities on the 14:00 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh due 18:25.
This is due to a shortage of on train staff.
There are no reservations on this service.
Additional Facilities Information:
The leading five cars will be locked out of use between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Did no one consider the staffing problems ?

This is because a 2x5car set has been substituted for a 9 car AZUMA or mk4 set.
 

cactustwirly

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That’s my point. Are there enough crew to deal with such occasions which I am sure won’t be that unusual.

Should be, depends on how the LNER crewing arrangements work.
GWR get about this by using catering staff in the leading set
 

route101

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Southbound Higghland Cheiftain was chocka and standing from Stirling today . The guard was asking if anyone would get off at Edinburgh and get later southbound services. Apparently a lot f trainline tickets didnt have seat reservations.
 

TheBigD

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Southbound Higghland Cheiftain was chocka and standing from Stirling today . The guard was asking if anyone would get off at Edinburgh and get later southbound services. Apparently a lot f trainline tickets didnt have seat reservations.

It was reported on LNERs website just after 8am as full and standing from Inverness.

There were a lot of "full and standing" reported both north and southbound this morning, not helped by the reduced service to/from Kings Cross until 1pm. A couple of 5 vice 10 on the Leeds route as well.
 

route101

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It was reported on LNERs website just after 8am as full and standing from Inverness.

There were a lot of "full and standing" reported both north and southbound this morning, not helped by the reduced service to/from Kings Cross until 1pm. A couple of 5 vice 10 on the Leeds route as well.

I was lucky and boarded coach b and got a seat. Was surprised to see it arriving into Stirling on electric mode.
 

GrimShady

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Looking forward to the inevitable 5 car sub in on an Aberdeen or Inverness. In which case, a contingent queue system plan to prioritise passegers with reservations from England to stations north of Edinburgh wouldn't go a miss.

My bet is on 10 car split at Waverley with the end of catering there or Newcastle.

All in the name of modern efficiency of course!
 

jimm

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I doubt that the Dft has any control over operational decisions made by LNER or any other TOC.
In a similar vein they clearly have no control over Northern or TPE!

Excuse me, but if you have more train on the books than you are supposed to, you need to pay for them.

DfT does not like TOCs to go spending money without justifying it. So the idea that someone in LNER's engineering team decides to keep extra trains in use without permission from the top of the food chain does not hold water.

Micromanagement by DfT (with the Treasury looming over its shoulder) is the order of the day. If a TOC can make a valid case to do something, like keep a train or two in service for a few weeks longer than planned, then they may be listened to and get consent to do it, but they do not act off their own bat.
 

CdBrux

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As a not at all frequent traveller on UK trains I had the opportunity over the last two days to compare new and old trains on ECML. We had a mk4 north from Peterborough to Leeds on Friday (late and should have been an Azuma leading to mucked up and missing seat reservations) and an Azuma for the reverse journey today. From a passenger experience point of view little difference, in fact the main thing I noticed was the mk4 coach had a helpful screen displaying info on the journey, next stops, revised times and connections available at the next stop. This info should be available on the Azuma so a retrograde step there.
 

Doomotron

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As a not at all frequent traveller on UK trains I had the opportunity over the last two days to compare new and old trains on ECML. We had a mk4 north from Peterborough to Leeds on Friday (late and should have been an Azuma leading to mucked up and missing seat reservations) and an Azuma for the reverse journey today. From a passenger experience point of view little difference, in fact the main thing I noticed was the mk4 coach had a helpful screen displaying info on the journey, next stops, revised times and connections available at the next stop. This info should be available on the Azuma so a retrograde step there.
The Azumas so have those screens but they might not be turned on.
 

Crisps

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The Azumas so have those screens but they might not be turned on.
Where? I haven’t seen them, even turned off. The only screen they have that I have seen is a Voyager style, basic dot matrix display at the ends of each carriage.
 
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