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Sheffield Signalling Problems - 28/12

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Max

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Surprised that nobody has posted anything about the significant problems around Sheffield this morning. I'm trying to make my way from Cottingham to Sheffield. Sadly, my Northern train was caped at Hull but managed to make it to Doncaster courtesy Hull Trains. Now on 1B71 (0942 TPE DON-MIA service) and we have been sitting at Masborough for about 40 minutes and counting.

Does anybody with inside knowledge have any intel on the scale of the failure (assuming huge!) and when it's likely to be fixed? I noticed that some trains heading northbound were diverting via Tinsley, but sadly we went normal route and are now stuck in the queue. Would this have been down to the crew's lack of route knowledge or lack of paths, or a bit of both?
 
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CHAPS2034

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No inside gen but NRE says

A fault with the signalling system between Sheffield and Meadowhall is causing major disruption to journeys between these stations. As a result of this, trains may be cancelled, revised or delayed by up to 90 minutes. Some trains may also be diverted where possible.

This is expected until 14:00.
Click to expand...

Not much consolation for you that TPE are now running buses Sheff-Meadowhall -Donny.
 
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CHAPS2034 said:
No inside gen but NRE says



Not much consolation for you that TPE are now running buses Sheff-Meadowhall -Donny.
Click to expand...

Thanks - I abandoned at Meadowhall and switched to the tram so I'm at least on the move now!
 
Dren Ahmeti

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CHAPS2034 said:
No inside gen
Click to expand...
I’ll switch it up with some “inside gen” then:
The signalling has failed due to an as yet unknown reason.
It has failed between Mill Race and Meadowhall, just outside of Sheffield.
Throughput through the affected area is slowly being limited to 1 TPE, 1 XC and 1 NT per hour, unless they have the route knowledge to divert via Rothernham and Woodburn Junction (Tinsley), which some drivers do sign.

Control has tried to implement Emergency Special Working, but this isn’t possible due to a large amount of Automatic signals, meaning that the first possible entry/exit signals to the ESW are signals protecting Nunnery Main Line Junction and Holmes Junction, which means that ESW would be very difficult to implement.
 
Broken70

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Seems to be causing major issues far and wide with TP and XC while Northern are seemingly cancelling everything end to end.

Surprised Cross Country arnt running via Beighton avoiding the area altogether as I'm sure they have route knowledge on that line and operate that way during engineering works. The Reading-Newcastles are been cancelled between Birmingham New St and York/Newcastle so I'd imagine what is running on XC to be rather busy to say the least.

All fun for a Saturday and so far today cancellations due to lack of train crew are nonexistent so every cloud :D
 
eastwestdivide

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Well, normal in the sense that trains are getting through!
Still masses of cancellations up to 1530 and beyond. I saw the 1226 Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport passing Rotherham Parkgate at 1407 (it went via Tinsley/Woodburn Jn)
 
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Broken70 said:
Seems to be causing major issues far and wide with TP and XC while Northern are seemingly cancelling everything end to end.

Surprised Cross Country arnt running via Beighton avoiding the area altogether as I'm sure they have route knowledge on that line and operate that way during engineering works. The Reading-Newcastles are been cancelled between Birmingham New St and York/Newcastle so I'd imagine what is running on XC to be rather busy to say the least.

All fun for a Saturday and so far today cancellations due to lack of train crew are nonexistent so every cloud :D
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XC crews do not have route knowledge from Beighton Jct to Masborough Jct, so that’s a no go.
 
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I was there around mid-day, trying to get to Leeds but had to accept it wasn't going to happen. I stuck around for a while, watching the confusion.

It was impacting severely on a considerable number of people wanting Manchester Airport with several TPE services unable to enter SHF from the north. Around 1230, a large crowd on Pl.2 must have been told their best bet was to get the EMR Liverpool service to Piccadilly and change there for the airport. Well, sod's law prevailed and the EMR service arrived short formed, just a single 158. Absolutely no chance of all the waiting people getting on and by the time it was absolutely rammed from end to end, many were still on the platform.
Now, whilst it was still at the platform, an announcement was heard that there was a Manchester Airport train at Pl.8 which would form the 1311 departure. This caused some panic among the airport passengers on the 158, wondering whether to get off again and the realising it was physically impossible to do so. Ultimately, I think they were persuaded to stay on in the knowledge that it would be the first to go.

I had a wander over to Pl.8 to see the TPE train which was double 185s. The usual story, front end rammed, passengers on the platform having difficulty boarding, staff trying to get them clear of the doors for dispatch. Rear end less than half full. It got away about 10 mins late.

It was entertaining stuff if you weren't travelling and the situation was still very far from normal at 1600, still cancellations at that time.
 
Skymonster

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I was at SHF for an hour and a half from 10:00 to 11:30 wanting to go to Leeds and gave up in the end. The only train to get away northbound in that time was a XC 220 that was totally wedged to the point no more people could get aboard. It was going to Edinburgh and overtook another XC 220 also going to Edinburgh that had been sat at Platform 2, almost fully loaded, for an hour which was then cancelled. There was a 10:45 Leeds train, a Northern 158, that platformed on 3 at 10:48 with the screens showing departure at 10:51 but the guard insisted it wasn’t going anywhere and just walked off leaving all the passengers and the driver on board. That too was eventually cancelled along with all the other northbounds which were being cancelled just as they were due to leave, with passengers bouncing from one to the other to the next and with no helpful information being provided. Eventually there was an announcement that passengers for the north should board a rail replacement bus to Doncaster and continue their journeys from there - that’s when I gave up and moved to plan B.

The worst aspects of the experience was there was no useful information being provided meaning passengers were rushing from platform to platform only to find the next train was cancelled at the last moment, platform staff were no help and just seemed to have given up, and the information on the platform screens differed from what the on-train staff said was happening.

I guess the big challenge was NRE originally said the problem would be resolved by 09:45, then 11:00, then 12:00 - and it seems that it actually 14:00 before things started to return to normal. But Northern’s communications with customers and staff was pretty woeful throughout.

There were still a lot of knock-on cancellations this evening - at around 17:20 there were no trains on the platforms at Sheffield and plenty of cancellations and delays on the screens.
 
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As far as diversion route knowledge goes for TPE, Sheffield Depot only signs via Woodburn Junction.

14.26 and 15.26 Cleethorpes -Airports were started from Sheffield, 16.26 cancelled outright No crew. Passengers directed to EMR’s Newark North Gate Service for such destinations as York and Newcastle...
 
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A lot of the announcements were totally inaudible. I did get the gist about the Rail Replacement Bus arrangement which told people to go across to the bus station but most of them had no idea where exactly at the bus station to head for.
 
Skymonster

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Mugby said:
A lot of the announcements were totally inaudible. I did get the gist about the Rail Replacement Bus arrangement which told people to go across to the bus station but most of them had no idea where exactly at the bus station to head for.
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The RRB thing was a bit of a farce. An announcement on the platforms said there would be a bus provided to Doncaster which would depart from stand E at the bus station - no time given - although no where on Sheffield station are there any noticeable signs saying which way the bus station is. And anyway, it’s called (and signed once you’ve crossed the main road) Sheffield Interchange, not Sheffield Bus Station which is another variation to confuse those who are unfamiliar with the city.
 
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Skymonster said:
The RRB thing was a bit of a farce. An announcement on the platforms said there would be a bus provided to Doncaster which would depart from stand E at the bus station - no time given - although no where on Sheffield station are there any noticeable signs saying which way the bus station is. And anyway, it’s called (and signed once you’ve crossed the main road) Sheffield Interchange, not Sheffield Bus Station which is another variation to confuse those who are unfamiliar with the city.
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So nothing has changed since the issue was flagged at least 3 years ago. Everyone I know in Sheffield calls it the bus station but, as you say, it is signed as Interchange which non locals would probably think was somewhere different.

An obvious solution would be (i) to make sure announcements referred to Interchange and (ii) to have some portable signboards at the station which, when required, could be positioned at strategic points supplemented by one (or more) member of staff outside the entrance doors to point out where the Interchange is.
 
johnnychips

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Just a note that during the floods and all the chaos that brought, the displays at Sheffield were terrible, lacking or wrong and in four days I heard just one ‘human’ voice as opposed to an apologising computer. Somebody earlier claimed this was Northern’s fault, but this station is run by EMR. It doesn’t sound as if that had improved during the signalling disruption.
 
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johnnychips said:
Just a note that during the floods and all the chaos that brought, the displays at Sheffield were terrible, lacking or wrong and in four days I heard just one ‘human’ voice as opposed to an apologising computer. Somebody earlier claimed this was Northern’s fault, but this station is run by EMR. It doesn’t sound as if that had improved during the signalling disruption.
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EMR weren't really affected at all on Saturday, their services from the South were running normally apart from carrying a lot more passengers than usual. You have to wonder if it was a case of 'It's not our problem, why should we bother' On the other hand, perhaps Northern and the others gave them little or no information to pass on to the crowds on the platforms.
 
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Was the same when I passed through during the floods and took a replacement bus to Doncaster. Nothing on the departure boards or any announcements that buses were running every 30 mins. I only found out by asking at the information desk. There was nobody at all in the interchange to speak to other than the coach drivers. They said they were agreeing between them who would do which runs as nobody from the railway was in control!

I would agree that, having had several issues using Northern at Sheffield, that the attitude of station staff is generally “nothing to do with us” and no announcements beyond the automated cancellation one are made.
 
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In my opinion all station staff should be employed by Network Rail so no bias.
Sheffield EMR staff are not interested in other operators, but they are not alone, LNER at Donny,York,Darlo and Newcastle are the same.
 
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class 9 said:
In my opinion all station staff should be employed by Network Rail so no bias.
Sheffield EMR staff are not interested in other operators, but they are not alone, LNER at Donny,York,Darlo and Newcastle are the same.
Click to expand...
The biggest problem I find is Northern don't give effective updates during disruption. The result is you either know nothing, or worse give out information that ends up being incorrect because someone's changed their mind. Its very frustrating. EMR and Cross Country seem to be better, they tend to send out a good "rough overview" for the plan so you get a good idea of what to expect, even if it still varies for each individual service.
 
johnnychips

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class 9 said:
In my opinion all station staff should be employed by Network Rail so no bias.
Sheffield EMR staff are not interested in other operators, but they are not alone, LNER at Donny,York,Darlo and Newcastle are the same.
Click to expand...
Disagree. I find staff at Donny human-voiced and unbiased.
 
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class 9 said:
In my opinion all station staff should be employed by Network Rail so no bias.
Sheffield EMR staff are not interested in other operators, but they are not alone, LNER at Donny,York,Darlo and Newcastle are the same.
Click to expand...
I’ve noticed on a number of occasions how non-LNER operated services have come and gone at Doncaster and York without being announced.
 
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johnnychips said:
Disagree. I find staff at Donny human-voiced and unbiased.
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As a non LNER staff member that operates through there, I beg to differ.
Also they’re often congregated in groups chatting, which can make them unapproachable to many passengers.
 
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