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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Mathew S

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I think that those operating Manchester Airport would not be too happy at having fewer trains to what is a British top-three airport. There are already vast amounts of adjacent land to the airport that are covered with airport car parking facilities.
Of course anything is possible if you throw enough money at it, but physically relocating the station to a larger alternative site would both be expensive, and move the rail link further from the terminals. Also, neither option is going to happen until HS2 comes along, because if you're going to rebuild then also integrate.
All of which means that train length is limited by platform length at the airport which, by extension, means 2 or 3 car trains are needed at Northern, hence 195s.
 
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Spartacus

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There's no easy solution, no. Physical constants at the airport mean it's close to impossible to expand the station. The only other option is to run fewer trains to the airport which is all well and good, but there's precious little capacity to terminate them elsewhere either.

Only solutions are to not terminate so many services there, but to continue them to somewhere else, or for those which do terminate to ace do the same if they have a long time before returning. Wilmslow would be perfect for this, trains could reverse in platform 2, or use the siding if there was something else behind it.

I doubt it would raise as much of a stink if a late running Wilmslow terminator was cut back to MIA either.

TBH I’m shocked this isn’t done given the congestion at MIA. The service on that section of the Styal line is certainly sparse enough to allow it, and would cost nothing in infrastructure enhancements.
 

JonathanH

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That isn't how it works.

TPE trains mainly have long turnarounds and go to the buffer stops. Northern trains tend to have short turnarounds and terminate at the country end of the platform.

They are typically not there for much longer than they would be if reversing out to Wilmslow.

The timetable has been amended to allow for the fact that TPE are going to run longer trains to the Airport. The Cumbria service shares a platform with TfW's North Wales service and the Liverpool service shares a platform with TPE's Cleethorpes service.
 
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Spartacus

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That isn't how it works.

TPE trains mainly have long turnarounds and go to the buffer stops. Northern trains tend to have short turnarounds and terminate at the country end of the platform.

They are typically not there for much longer than they would be if reversing out to Wilmslow.

Nothing unsurpassable to stop the TPEs doing the Wilmslow move or Northern diagrams being changed to allow it. Simply a planning matter, but as it’s NR’s problem, it’s MK’s to solve...... I wonder if it would have been already if train planning was still regionalised? MK don’t seem half as capable of suggesting innovative solutions, or even sometimes any solutions....
 

Killingworth

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That isn't how it works.

TPE trains mainly have long turnarounds and go to the buffer stops. Northern trains tend to have short turnarounds and terminate at the country end of the platform.

They are typically not there for much longer than they would be if reversing out to Wilmslow.

The timetable has been amended to allow for the fact that TPE are going to run longer trains to the Airport. The Cumbria service shares a platform with TfW's North Wales service and the Liverpool service shares a platform with TPE's Cleethorpes service.

And the Cleethorpes services usually leaves onec unit at Piccadilly.
 

JonathanH

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And the Cleethorpes services usually leaves onec unit at Piccadilly.

Yes, otherwise there wouldn't be space for the Liverpool to go on top at the Airport.

It looks like the platform allocation at the Airport has been designed around the Blackpool train being 6-car where necessary as it gets a platform to itself but has a tight turnaround. As I noted 195s both stop country end.
 

JonathanH

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Nothing unsurpassable to stop the TPEs doing the Wilmslow move or Northern diagrams being changed to allow it.

Increasing movements over the West Junction won't improve punctuality and probably can't be pathed. Movements from the Airport to Styal conflict with incoming services from Heald Green.
 

childwallblues

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Did I not read many years ago a proposal to build a tunnel to somehow connect to the mid cheshire line. No need for dwell time if that could happen. However the cost would be astronomical.And who would pay for it? Not Manchester Airport you can bet!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Yes quite a few times actually. It would have to be near Heald Green Jn. Of course it's a bit more complicated with the airport relief road now. Near the car park and past the threshold for the runway is probably the only option? Interestingly from satellite imagery this land is owned by NR and there is an access ramp.

The new A555 Airport relief road does come very near to the line of the railway (which is situated in a long cutting).
 

Mathew S

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No Airport services are booked as 2-car. Two 4-car trains are permitted to share a platform.
Mhmm, and when they have to share platforms with TPE services which are longer than 4 cars, then they have to be only two or three car trains, is my point.
 

a_c_skinner

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Back on (close anyhow) topic it does seem unsatisfactory that rolling stock investment won't realise its full potential because of such an obvious shortcoming in infrastructure. I'm pretty sure a lot of threads about new rolling stock develop side shoots like this, with shortcomings spoiling the potential effect. Airedale platforms and the 331s spring to mind - correctly I think.
 

Bovverboy

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No Airport services are booked as 2-car.

I was about to say that the 1435 Airport - Llandudno was (& 1414 arrival) but I see that, as of the present timetable, the 0852 Piccadilly - Holyhead no longer splits at Chester into 2 x 2-car units, instead what was the Llandudno portion (which became the 1435 ex-Airport) is now a standalone service starting at Crewe. Is it a 175/1 now?
 

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder that this is a Traction & Rolling stock thread to discuss Class 195 construction & introduction updates only.

To discuss anything else, please use (or create) another thread; any suggestions/ideas need to be posted in the Speculative Ideas section.

Thanks :)
 

156420

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There’s a 195 now booked to work CLC stoppers on a Saturday - 06:20 from Lime St etc, does wonders for the route, timekeeping is excellent and any lost time it manages to recover.
 

fowler9

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There’s a 195 now booked to work CLC stoppers on a Saturday - 06:20 from Lime St etc, does wonders for the route, timekeeping is excellent and any lost time it manages to recover.
I've had two 150's and a pacer on the CLC today. How many units operate it?
 

Geeves

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A quick check shows 7 sets out. 150140,145,146, 142055, 150128+142004 and 195013 on the stoppers.
 
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Class195

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When arriving into Bradford platform four from Leeds, the announcements and displays are still staying we will be shortly arriving into Halifax.

When will this fault be rectified?
 

Jamesrob637

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As I have posted in the 331 diagrams thread, is it worth having a separate thread for Double 195 diagrams?
 

Bertie the bus

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When arriving into Bradford platform four from Leeds, the announcements and displays are still staying we will be shortly arriving into Halifax.

When will this fault be rectified?
The PIS on these units has been let's say interesting since they were introduced back in July. I wouldn't hold your breath.
 

Class195

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The PIS on these units has been let's say interesting since they were introduced back in July. I wouldn't hold your breath.

What was even more fascinating was the arrow to alight was pointing to the right when platform four is on the left.

Northern should really sort the gremlins out.
 

Matt_pool

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No Airport services are booked as 2-car. Two 4-car trains are permitted to share a platform.

I must have been hallucinating then a few weeks ago when the 195 I got from South Parkway to Piccadilly (on the airport service) was only 2 carriages; and later that day I got the same 2 carriage 195 back from Piccadilly to South Parkway!

In fact, quite a few times at Lime Street I've seen that the Man Airport service has only been 2 carriages.

Anyway, 195 114 (3 carriages) has been doing the Man Oxford Rd to Lime Street today!
 

JonathanH

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I must have been hallucinating then a few weeks ago when the 195 I got from South Parkway to Piccadilly (on the airport service) was only 2 carriages; and later that day I got the same 2 carriage 195 back from Piccadilly to South Parkway!

Just because you caught a 2-car 195 on an Airport service doesn't mean it was booked for one. It seems to be a fairly regular occurrence that the booked 4-car working on the Liverpool route runs with 2-cars.
 

Matt_pool

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Just because you caught a 2-car 195 on an Airport service doesn't mean it was booked for one. It seems to be a fairly regular occurrence that the booked 4-car working on the Liverpool route runs with 2-cars.

The Liverpool - Man Airport service is nearly always a 3 carriage 195!
 
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