Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

Llama · 19 Dec 2019

jfollows said:
Roger Ford now reports the problems have been resolved with a traction package software update.

I'm not sure it's a 'traction package' update, the issue with stabled 331s/397s was apparently caused by the auxiliary converters rather than the traction converters. A memo was posted dated 5th Dec staying that a software update had been successful and the instructions for dropping the pan when stabling within the triangle around Preston/Blackpool no longer applied.
The regenerative brake is still to be isolated on the 331s (I've no idea on the 397s).

RailUK Forums

Camden · 19 Dec 2019

Given the number of people now having to stand between Liverpool and Manchester on both the new short formed electric and diesel units, it would at least be reasonable to expect the drivers are taught to drive them properly.

The braking of the unit I'm currently on is abysmal, passengers jerking about all over the place as if being driven by a 17 year old in a Vauxhall nova. They can't drive for toffee.

Jozhua · 19 Dec 2019

Camden said:
Given the number of people now having to stand between Liverpool and Manchester on both the new short formed electric and diesel units, it would at least be reasonable to expect the drivers are taught to drive them properly.

The braking of the unit I'm currently on is abysmal, passengers jerking about all over the place as if being driven by a 17 year old in a Vauxhall nova. They can't drive for toffee.

I think the brakes are just very new and need bedding in a bit, it's probably also one of those things where the driver needs to get used to the feel of it which just requires practice.

It's probably more representative of the fleet rather than the drivers and I'm sure they're still doing a great job of keeping passengers safe.

AMD · 19 Dec 2019

Camden said:
The braking of the unit I'm currently on is abysmal, passengers jerking about all over the place as if being driven by a 17 year old in a Vauxhall nova. They can't drive for toffee.

It's more to do with the software, go speak to some drivers and they will tell you that it's got 'quirks', especially in the range of 1 to 2 mph

Llama · 19 Dec 2019

Camden said:
Given the number of people now having to stand between Liverpool and Manchester on both the new short formed electric and diesel units, it would at least be reasonable to expect the drivers are taught to drive them properly.

The braking of the unit I'm currently on is abysmal, passengers jerking about all over the place as if being driven by a 17 year old in a Vauxhall nova. They can't drive for toffee.

If it's when the unit is stopping, there's nothing whatsoever the driver can do about that, once it gets down to 1mph the holding brake applies automatically and it is especially harsh in 331s.

If you're saying that the jerking about is in normal running rather than when coming to a stand then yes that's probably more down to poor driver technique.

507 001 · 19 Dec 2019

I’ve noticed some drivers seem to be much better at braking than others.
My experience is that it’s the initial application that is really OTT, even when releasing and re-applying.

Add in the fact that there’s not really much to hold onto if you’re stood in the vestibule and it makes for an awkward ride if you’re stood up.

Llama · 19 Dec 2019

The initial application and release of the brakes on both 195s and 331s is very sudden and in no way smooth, it takes a very gentle initial application of the brake to avoid throwing people about, but the only literature relating to braking instructions in normal running conditions on these units that drivers are given is this:
"Braking
 Initial brake should be to 50% of
brake effort, this allows you to reduce
brake effort as necessary or in the
event of WSP activity / low adhesion
keep the brake effort at 50% then
increasing as necessary."

ohgoditsjames · 19 Dec 2019

Is there any chance the 331’s on the Airedale and Wharfedale lines could have a different internal configuration? Or should I say is there any chance they’ll be changed eventually?

The amount of tables, seat capacity and lack of handles in the standing areas makes them unsuitable for these highly overcrowded routes. Nice enough trains though.

xotGD · 19 Dec 2019

ohgoditsjames said:
Is there any chance the 331’s on the Airedale and Wharfedale lines could have a different internal configuration? Or should I say is there any chance they’ll be changed eventually?

The amount of tables, seat capacity and lack of handles in the standing areas makes them unsuitable for these highly overcrowded routes. Nice enough trains though.

The lack of somewhere to hold onto in the vestibules is also a problem on the 333s. Clearly lessons have not been learnt.

Grannyjoans · 20 Dec 2019

Yes some drivers are much better at braking than others.
It also takes some time getting used to the new units on each route.
It also depends how much practice the driver gets at each route with the new trains. For example, some drivers only drive the Chorley line very occasionally.

Inox · 22 Dec 2019

Pleasant surprise currently on a three car 331 to vic...

palmersears · 28 Dec 2019

Had two 331/0s today. First, 002, had a broken toilet, a cracked PIS screen and a loose panel above one door. The second 012, had a broken bin, an armrest missing, a cracked PIS and a distorted speaker. The state of these units after such a short time in service is utterly terrible.

Mathew S · 28 Dec 2019

palmersears said:
Had two 331/0s today. First, 002, had a broken toilet, a cracked PIS screen and a loose panel above one door. The second 012, had a broken bin, an armrest missing, a cracked PIS and a distorted speaker. The state of these units after such a short time in service is utterly terrible.

Cracked PIS screens, loose panels, missing armrests, and broken bins rather sounds like damage caused by passengers... sadly.

Llama · 28 Dec 2019

You don't have to try hard to break some things on these units. 90% of the passcomm plungers operated on the training units just came off in people's hands when they were reset.

palmersears · 29 Dec 2019

Mathew S said:
Cracked PIS screens, loose panels, missing armrests, and broken bins rather sounds like damage caused by passengers... sadly.

Llama said:
You don't have to try hard to break some things on these units. 90% of the passcomm plungers operated on the training units just came off in people's hands when they were reset.

I saw the loose panel dislodge itself after we went over the junction near Lostock, whilst the bin had broken due to the weight of rubbish (which is a pitiful amount to begin with) forcing the lid off its hinge. I appreciate that some of Northerns clientele are less that appreciative of nice new things, but CAF really haven't helped by providing decidedly average build quality initially.

Llama · 29 Dec 2019

The build quality of the fixtures and fittings, and some other more operational kit, is absolutely comical.

Mordac · 29 Dec 2019

Oh well, at least those are mostly things Newton Heath can fix it with Gaffa Tape.

js1000 · 29 Dec 2019

Mathew S said:
Cracked PIS screens, loose panels, missing armrests, and broken bins rather sounds like damage caused by passengers... sadly.

Having travelled on 195s from day 1 the build quality is shoddy at best. Going forward I would have concerns about overhead panels. Quite a few of them are already loose and irritatingly rattle.

Xenophon PCDGS · 29 Dec 2019

js1000 said:
Having travelled on 195s from day 1 the build quality is shoddy at best. Going forward I would have concerns about overhead panels. Quite a few of them are already loose and irritatingly rattle.

What measures do have CAF have in hand to deal with such matters?

Llama · 29 Dec 2019

Hopefully a redesign of all problematic fixtures, fittings and fastenings. Everything is bogged down in warranty issues.

Jozhua · 30 Dec 2019

Doors seem a lot wider on the 331's, got to say the actual layout and provision of things in the carriages is quite impressive. The seats have a decent amount of legroom (no comment on their quality), tables make it feel less like a cattle-cart (no comment on their quality), 240v power is actually really handy as well as being more useful and future proof than USB. Would like maybe one more toilet on a four car 331 formation though. Another small space-saver would be a useful addition, especially when one inevitably breaks or you are on a particularly long journey. The seats near the doors are nice too, especially if you have luggage or are only on for a few minutes.

Seen some complaints about no 5-across seating, but I think 5 across is a dud in the UK, with our more constrained train widths. Let's be honest, how much do you see 5 people actually sat on a row of seats? The middle seat seems to be taken up by elbows or bags most of the time.

oscarthecat92 · 31 Dec 2019

Jozhua said:
Doors seem a lot wider on the 331's, got to say the actual layout and provision of things in the carriages is quite impressive. The seats have a decent amount of legroom (no comment on their quality), tables make it feel less like a cattle-cart (no comment on their quality), 240v power is actually really handy as well as being more useful and future proof than USB. Would like maybe one more toilet on a four car 331 formation though. Another small space-saver would be a useful addition, especially when one inevitably breaks or you are on a particularly long journey. The seats near the doors are nice too, especially if you have luggage or are only on for a few minutes.

Seen some complaints about no 5-across seating, but I think 5 across is a dud in the UK, with our more constrained train widths. Let's be honest, how much do you see 5 people actually sat on a row of seats? The middle seat seems to be taken up by elbows or bags most of the time.

That's all well and good if the promised upgraded in train lengths actually happen. On the Airedale line the middle seat in the bays of 3 is heavily used in the morning rush hour on the 333 units, they are often full and standing with middle seats occupied.

A 4 car 331 Vs 4 car 333 therefore represents a downgrade in capacity on this route, if they are to become 6 car like originally promised it would be an improvement

childwallblues · 1 Jan 2020

Any current locations for 331102 and 331104 please?

childwallblues · 1 Jan 2020

Newbie 331014 was in service today in Liverpool. Arrived from Wigan North Western and was on the 1529 to Crewe.
Noted on Alsthom Edge Hill Depot were 331022 and 331023.

Jozhua · 4 Jan 2020

oscarthecat92 said:
That's all well and good if the promised upgraded in train lengths actually happen. On the Airedale line the middle seat in the bays of 3 is heavily used in the morning rush hour on the 333 units, they are often full and standing with middle seats occupied.

A 4 car 331 Vs 4 car 333 therefore represents a downgrade in capacity on this route, if they are to become 6 car like originally promised it would be an improvement

Hmm, not seen it so much on the 319's I've travelled on. Clearly your experience of the 333's arrangement is different. Still feel 5 across is an inefficient use of space, takes up too much standing room with a seat that often goes unoccupied. 150/1's are arguably the worst for this though, as the airline style 5 across is incredibly claustrophobic and has no room for legs!

As a replacement for the 319, they are a good uplift in capacity due to the length of the carriages being longer.

Bantamzen · 4 Jan 2020

oscarthecat92 said:
That's all well and good if the promised upgraded in train lengths actually happen. On the Airedale line the middle seat in the bays of 3 is heavily used in the morning rush hour on the 333 units, they are often full and standing with middle seats occupied.

A 4 car 331 Vs 4 car 333 therefore represents a downgrade in capacity on this route, if they are to become 6 car like originally promised it would be an improvement

The 331s aren't replacing the 333s, they are replacing the 321/322s.

superkev · 4 Jan 2020

Anyone got any updates on my 331 status list.
3 cars I have 331 001-003, 005-009, 011, 013-023 at Allerton with 004 and 012 Skipton trainers, 010, 019-024 stored Edge Hill and 025 to 031 awaited.
4 cars 331 101 112 all in use 6 each at AN and NL.
K

D365 · 4 Jan 2020

Bantamzen said:
The 331s aren't replacing the 333s, they are replacing the 321/322s.

I was under the impression that 2x3 car 331s would partially replace 4 car 331s. But I could have missed something along the way...

jonesy3001 · 4 Jan 2020

331025 arrived yesterday, credit to trevor;

https://twitter.com/tms1967/status/1213092936734400513

Bantamzen · 4 Jan 2020

D365 said:
I was under the impression that 2x3 car 331s would partially replace 4 car 331s. But I could have missed something along the way...

The original plan as I understand was for 3 car 331s to work in West Yorkshire replacing the 321/322s, with some doubling up in the peaks on the Aire route. However due to lack of platform capacity, the 4 car units have been sent in the meantime. Whether or not the Aire line will ever see 6 car workings is anyone's guess, but if I were a betting man I'd say that ship has sailed.

Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member