YorkshireBear
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There isn't a problem with the timetable its a lack of staff which was also crippling services before the change.
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Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals
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There isn't a problem with the timetable its a lack of staff which was also crippling services before the change.
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Bertie the bus
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I know it is a lack of trained staff. They weren't ready to run the service so why did the readiness board not pick that up? Your reply is just a rephrasing of the question I original asked.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I think readiness boards (coordinated by NR) are involved when major strategic changes are made to timetables, such as the GTR and Northern/TPE changes in May 2018.
This December's timetable change was major for, say, GWR with the new high frequency service out of Paddington.
But not really for Northern and TPE who were just tweaking the existing service a bit, and replacing some trains using existing times.
The service problems have been going on for months and have just been worsened for TPE by the self-inflicted extensions from Newcastle to Edinburgh and Liverpool to Glasgow, plus the committed transfer of 350s to WMT.
The timetable itself doesn't seem to be the problem, it's resourcing it that is failing.
This December's timetable change was major for, say, GWR with the new high frequency service out of Paddington.
But not really for Northern and TPE who were just tweaking the existing service a bit, and replacing some trains using existing times.
The service problems have been going on for months and have just been worsened for TPE by the self-inflicted extensions from Newcastle to Edinburgh and Liverpool to Glasgow, plus the committed transfer of 350s to WMT.
The timetable itself doesn't seem to be the problem, it's resourcing it that is failing.
Bertie the bus
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Running 125 mph trains in 125 mph paths isn’t a minor tweak. It isn’t always easy to separate wibble, speculation and fact but one theory put forward for why the Newcastle services are so badly affected is Network Rail won’t permit TPE to substitute 185s as they would delay other services, being 100 mph units. Therefore, it has a lot to do with the timetable and having enough crew trained on the 125 mph units (802s) is a significant part of TPE’s readiness.
YorkshireBear
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Which is just a moronic decision seen as I don't believe it was ever the plan to have all 802s in service by now.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Many of the Newcastle - Manchester Airport paths are still for 100mph 185s not 125mph 802s. Lack of 802 traincrew is not the whole story.
Solent&Wessex
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Then what is it then?
Before the timetable change they were managing to run everything including up to 4 802 diagrams a day. Now, with the only thing really changing being the Edinburgh extensions, they are running virtually nothing to Newcastle or Liverpool and struggling to cover even 1 802 diagram a day.
Something smells fishy here.
Christmas Eve was pretty shocking for all of their services but the Anglo-Scot services once again being hit especially heavy, TPE were advising passengers to go to Manchester Victoria for a Northern service to Preston and then onward from there.
One of the Edinburgh services had been cancelled, but then had been reinstated only 10 minutes before the train was due to leave. This was no use to the many passengers who had already been sent on alternative routes to get up to Scotland.
Sam
One of the Edinburgh services had been cancelled, but then had been reinstated only 10 minutes before the train was due to leave. This was no use to the many passengers who had already been sent on alternative routes to get up to Scotland.
Sam
Esker-pades
Established Member
It is perfectly possible to run an 802 in a path timed for a 185.
47271
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Not exactly. I made two journeys between Newcastle and Liverpool, and one between Liverpool and Newcastle in the two weeks before the timetable change, and my experience was that the service overall was worse than just about anything else in the UK.
Only one of the Newcastle departures, an 802 which came in three minutes after it was due to leave and then got later and later en route, happened. The other was cancelled and I had to cram on the very overcrowded following 185 and change at York.
The Liverpool departure, in the mid evening, was cancelled and I had to wait an hour for the next one, which itself then went on to run an hour late. My final destination was Sunderland, so I had to bale at Durham and get a taxi at my own cost because it was so late and I had no confidence that the Metro would still be running by the time we finally got in.
I don't deny that they're in an even worse state now, but they certainly weren't managing to run everything beforehand.
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Greybeard33
Established Member
TPE does not have enough 802 crews to work the services that are timed for 802s, let alone running them in paths timed for 185s!
Esker-pades
Established Member
I'm aware of that. I may have misunderstood your point about the pathing of services.
Yet railways have more political support now than at any time I can remember (I'm nearly 73). This support isn't guaranteed if the railways can't get their act together.
Scarborough back to Manchester isn't looking great tonight, not too bad middle of the day though. 1834 with the next train not till 2134 : (.
Newcastle is far worse. Last train south to Manchester was 1643 and nothing else for the rest of the day!
Newcastle is far worse. Last train south to Manchester was 1643 and nothing else for the rest of the day!
Glenn1969
Established Member
Newcastle at least has XC and LNER to get people to Leeds and York for TPE/Northern connections
86247
Member
Will the new year bring a change of fortunes to TPE or will it be the same old cancelling or terminating trains short of destination.
Kieran1990
Member
During the recent shambolic amount of cancellations across the network, had much staff training actually gone on? And will a full timetable come back in Jan?
If anyone is intrigued on just how badly TPE is performing right now...just scraping half of ALL services running to PPM is terrible with no precedent on the route. In May/June '18 at least ~70% of services were running to PPM.
http://trains.im/ppmhistorical/TP/monthly
http://trains.im/ppmhistorical/TP/monthly
blackfive460
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I can't see any reason why things should change at least in the medium term. All the problems that they've had in the last few months are all still there and even when crew training is complete there'll still be the difficulty when any kind of disruption occurs of not having crews with appropriate traction and route knowledge to cover for delayed booked crews.
In the short term, a comprehensive emergency timetable that can be well covered is the only solution and that would entail TPE admitting that they got things wrong. Not going to happen.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
TPE (Leo Goodwin) has apologised on their web site, on the page announcing cancellations up to January 5.
But I somehow doubt that significant training has been completed in the 3 weeks since the new timetable came in that will make much difference after that date.
What can be half-buried over the Christmas/New Year period won't wash after the break (and another fares increase).
https://tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates/december-2019-timetable-changes
But I somehow doubt that significant training has been completed in the 3 weeks since the new timetable came in that will make much difference after that date.
What can be half-buried over the Christmas/New Year period won't wash after the break (and another fares increase).
https://tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates/december-2019-timetable-changes
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A relatively small TOC operating 4 different forms of traction must be a nightmare scenario.
Different spares pools, different maintenance routines, requiring different training and traction knowledge.
The maintenance tasks alone must be multiplied 4 fold whereas a single or dual type fleet would have brought economies of scale.
Are the drivers and conductors only checked and approved to operate a single type ? If so this must be extremely limiting and restrict operational flexibility ? If a class 68 driver goes sick, can a driver from a Class 185 step in as short term replacement cover ?
A common pool of drivers and guards provides operational flexibility and some degree of resilience in the event of sickness, leave, training and operational disruptions.
Different spares pools, different maintenance routines, requiring different training and traction knowledge.
The maintenance tasks alone must be multiplied 4 fold whereas a single or dual type fleet would have brought economies of scale.
Are the drivers and conductors only checked and approved to operate a single type ? If so this must be extremely limiting and restrict operational flexibility ? If a class 68 driver goes sick, can a driver from a Class 185 step in as short term replacement cover ?
A common pool of drivers and guards provides operational flexibility and some degree of resilience in the event of sickness, leave, training and operational disruptions.
No explanation in there over which Scarborough-York services will be cancelled, which has largely seen services removed completely unpredictably from the timetable from one day to the next. With only an hourly service and not knowing which trains will be axed, this makes travelling on the route a nightmare. Absolute worthless garbage.
Agree. Garbage. The region will just about have coped so far simply because of the time of year, meaning many employees having access to leeway. If this persists past the 6th, it's going to be a catastrophe for many. An apology for the past year itself should begin with a resignation announcement, reflecting and recognising the impact.
Kieran1990
Member
Only 17 cancellations so far today.... could this be the start of an improvement?
Suspect TPE have had some sort of grilling from the DFT/ Shapps?
Suspect TPE have had some sort of grilling from the DFT/ Shapps?
86247
Member
just looked on RTT for timings through huyton for the next couple of hours and nothing is late or cancelled all TPE and northern services running ok, of course things could happen quickly to cause a melt down.
Bertie the bus
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An apology is no good if you then just trot out the same old lame excuses about how it is everybody else’s fault. It’s everybody else’s fault but we are working hard to sort out the issues. How does that work? They introduced an emergency timetable they claimed would stabilise the service. It didn’t. That is their fault.
gr4991
New Member
Further information has now been posted on the page, with details of cancellations till 24 January and further cancellations than previously towards Newcastle and Edinburgh.
https://tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates/december-2019-timetable-changes
https://tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates/december-2019-timetable-changes
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