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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR
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TheBigD
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The LNER buffet is located in the middle of standard, around 2.5 carriages (9 car) and 1.5 carriages (5 car) from 1st class.
Mountain Man
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That isn't what I said.
I said those who don't use it, shouldn't pay for it.
The cost should be covered by those who use it ie. It should be paid through sales revenue, not subsidy or through general ticket prices
You know full well that they also produce Pullman meals, but that is only being provided on services where the volumes of meals sold - at premium prices - justify employing a chef and the extra service crew.
As I pointed out just the other day, if there was ever a switch on GW services, by First Group or any other future franchisee, to the sort of first class complimentary meals service that passengers on East Coast and West Coast services get, then all the hot food needed would have to come out of those kitchens.
Same would apply if GWR decides to try some sort of at-seat delivery service along the lines that Clarence Yard favours - which has in effect been the case already on some morning IET I have used, where the trolley crew have taken orders for bacon rolls, called up the first class host and the bacon rolls then arrived not long afterwards.
I would suggest axing the kitchens from 5 car units if they haven't already, Pullman services can be run with 9 car units.
I like it to but would use the free wifi media thing to order it.
HamworthyGoods
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As has been discussed many times on here before, the Paddington to Penzance services are run as pairs of 5 cars to Plymouth with single 5s carrying on into Cornwall. These are the trains that have the majority of Pullman services, there isn’t enough stock to run these as 9 cars all the way through as the funding was instead used to create the Castle Class HSTs for Cornwall half-hourly.
This unless someone is prepared to fund additional class 802 vehicles and works at Long Rock Depot it is the 5 cars that are more in need of kitchens than 9 cars.
Let's hope they eventually do just that and use them to their full potential as LNER do.
Are we talking first class service here? If not how do those that don't use it pay for it except through usage?
Plane is only an alternative for Exeter to London City around 160 seats daily during the week in each direction, in comparison to the daily number of seats GWR yes it is a tiny alternative and probably no quicker than train.
Generally paid for food service is not profitable for an operator, so the ticket revenues are used to provide a subsidy for the service even if you don't use the service an incredibly small percentage of your ticket price will have gone towards it existing. This has to balanced against the number of trips where the availability of food/drink during the journey is then a decision factor in choosing to travel by rail rather than drive. Rail catering is an exercise in minimising losses not making a profit.
flitwickbeds
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So in your argument, every train which does an end to end journey of longer than 2 hours should have catering, and should repay everyone 10% of their journey cost if it doesn't?
Would that include putting catering on, say, Southern or Thameslink trains?
Goldfish62
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Let's remove all toilets from trains given that they don't make any money and not everyone uses them, or at the very least make people pay to use them. Perhaps the same could be done with seats...
Fast Track
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Brilliant!
ashkeba
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Plus 180 seats daily Cornwall to London Heathrow, plus various flights competing with combined GWR+XC trips to Manchester, the NE and Scotland, some seasonal. Not a big number by comparison but all of these domestic flights should be too small to survive as daily services if the railways in general were run ideally and XC in particular.
Perhaps. It's the norm on the mainland, where I would expect the coffee trolley on a long journey. I am not fussy about 2 hours or three, but it's the principle of the thing, especially long non-stop journeys.
On the services you mention, yes, there is a local travel nature of the service - it's not an intercity. Anyone going from Cambridge to Brighton knows they need to take sustenance with them because they are not travelling on an intercity service and a trolley is not advertised. My point was, if a service is advertised in the timetable and then is absent, there should be recompense for the pax. If I fly from London to Milan for example (120 -150 mins) I expect the trolley. The same should be provided on intercity trains.
Fast Track
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As the space taken up by fixed toilets doesn’t make a profit replace them with a trolley toilet at seat service. Be warned though in coaches A, B and C the trolley toilet may not reach you and if it does it will probably have run out of paper and soap.
Not a problem. Plenty in this thread telling people they should bring their own food on the train, why not extend it to your own bog roll as well?
So we axe the kitchens from the five-car sets and then find that we have nowhere to put the hot water boilers, or the fridges to store chilled items or anywhere to hold other stock for the first class and standard trolleys, or to park the trolleys waiting for water to boil, etc.
There is a reason that the 802s for TransPennine and Hull Trains still have a kitchen and catering storage area two-thirds the size of that on the GWR and LNER sets.
I would do what TPE did, axe it but keep what is actually needed.
Er, yes, a kitchen, which is already installed on all the GWR 800s and 802s...
You said it was 2/3 the size? Still a different kitchen.
Which does not have the ability to produce a Pullman meal or the sort of chef-prepared food available on various LNER and Avanti services - which would be a bit of problem if a TOC decided that's what it wanted to offer to first class in future.
And you said 'axe the kitchens' on five-car sets, not 'take out a bit of them at inordinate expense on nearly-new trains'...
ashkeba
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But think of the extra seats you could fit!
It is not passenger fault DfT ordered rubbish. The sunk cost fallacy really seems to hold back fixing things in the UK.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The disappearance of microwaved gristleburgers just followed a trend towards quality cold takeaway food (sandwiches/salads etc) rather than the principle being, as it tended to in the 1990s and before, that if you want food away from home it has to be a sit down meal or a McD's or equivalent.
That said, the item of train catering I miss the most is the old XC sausage, bacon, egg and tomato roll (which over time progressed through various types of bread). Which was microwaved but nice enough.
Actually, let's have a thread on that
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/most-missed-train-catering-item.197610/
That said, the item of train catering I miss the most is the old XC sausage, bacon, egg and tomato roll (which over time progressed through various types of bread). Which was microwaved but nice enough.
Actually, let's have a thread on that
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/most-missed-train-catering-item.197610/
Looking at GWRs website there are 6 pullman services a day, why keep the kitchens on all the IETs instead of 20 5 car units on 10 9 car units, I would still say 9 car units as this is meant to be a premium service, not great if you have to tell the customer they need to move mid journey
When I Travel from Penzance to catch Easyjet, the Rail part is between 5/7 hrs depending on whether I use Bristol or Gatwick
The 1st class IET offering is so minimal I now take my own supplies
With Easyjet I'm normally able to grab a Ham/Cheese Toasty (other offerings available) and a G&T within around 15 mins from take-off - all supplied from a space equivalent to a row of seats
The 1st class IET offering is so minimal I now take my own supplies
With Easyjet I'm normally able to grab a Ham/Cheese Toasty (other offerings available) and a G&T within around 15 mins from take-off - all supplied from a space equivalent to a row of seats
Goldfish62
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Yes, the catering on Easyjet is good, with a very reasonable selection of hot and cold food.
Busaholic
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I propose a new 'low cost' train company which could take over the existing GWR stock, and call it EasyIET. Fares would start at £5, which fare would be available for anyone paying six months in advance by unrefundable bitcoin, providing the date of travel was not in any month containing a 'y', nor was before the 32nd of the month in question. All fares would entitle you to approach the train, with onboard attendants to see which 'extra' facilities you'd paid for. A seat with wooden slats would be available at £30 per journey and one with a modicum of padding £50. The buffet problem would be solved immediately, as no food or drink would be allowed to be brought on board by passengers under any circumstances, although those with a Disabled Railcard (but NOT their companions) would be allowed one quarter bottle of water. Hot and cold drinks would be available from the buffet at a standard charge of £5 per drink, sandwiches £10 and bacon rolls/hamburgers at £15. A 'no change' policy would operate for cash payers. Each passenger would be issued with one FREE toilet pass for the journey, to be given to the attendant in charge, who controls their use. Five minutes will be allowed before the door automatically opens, but disabled will be allowed an extra minute. Toilet paper will be available at £1 per ten sheets, and additional toilet passes may be purchased at staff discretion on payment of £5. Passengers must check in at their station at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure of the train, although Premium Class passengers with a ticket costing a minimum of £100 will be allowed 15 minutes. One piece of carry-on luggage below certain dimensions and weight will be allowed free, but others will be transported in a dedicated carriage space with an excess of £20 upwards.
ashkeba
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Ironically already the case but it's almost never enforced unless you dare do something utterly evil like try to put a folded wheelchair or large musical instrument on. So everyone suffers with massive roller cases stood in walkways and extra legroom seats. But never mind, oversize underpaying luggage is more important than food service.
Bletchleyite
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No it's not. You can have three, not one. And the defined size is pretty large.
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