SWR Longest Strike - December 2019

ABDeltic · 3 Jan 2020

Anyone know why on local news and last night's Evening Standard they are saying the strike timetable is continuing on Thursday and Friday when it isn't?

RailUK Forums

Carlisle · 3 Jan 2020

TEW said:
All the trains cancelled today were planned to run as ECS DOO in their booked pathways. There were guards who had their booked trains cancelled who sat spare, and other spare guards who were unutilised. There were also guards volunteering and able to work free days who were not given work. More trains certainly could have been ran today.

From a human nature perspective possibly bosses & others who’ve been pulling their hair out trying to keep things running over the last month don’t have huge appetite for immediately busting a gut chasing after returning members of the workforce who are perhaps viewed as essentially having had their feet up over that same period.

Fiyero · 3 Jan 2020

TEW said:
All the trains cancelled today were planned to run as ECS DOO in their booked pathways. There were guards who had their booked trains cancelled who sat spare, and other spare guards who were unutilised. There were also guards volunteering and able to work free days who were not given work. More trains certainly could have been ran today.

That would be why my usual train home went past empty while I had to wait for my normal ‘backup’ which ended up 17 minutes late. Oh well, another 33p of delay repay on its way!

Goldfish62 · 3 Jan 2020

ABDeltic said:
Anyone know why on local news and last night's Evening Standard they are saying the strike timetable is continuing on Thursday and Friday when it isn't?

Probably not helped by SWR twitter that had been saying just that.

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

TEW said:
All the trains cancelled today were planned to run as ECS DOO in their booked pathways. There were guards who had their booked trains cancelled who sat spare, and other spare guards who were unutilised. There were also guards volunteering and able to work free days who were not given work. More trains certainly could have been ran today.

Who decides this stuff and why? If guards are sat spare and were due to work the train, who decides they shouldn't?

Is it miscommunication with someone thinking the guards aren't available or more sinister than that?

I note one train yesterday was cancelled less than 10 minutes before it was due to depart. How come they only knew this at the last minute?

Could a guard defy the order and work the train in service, even though it was meant to run ECS?

Bigfoot · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
Who decides this stuff and why? If guards are sat spare and were due to work the train, who decides they shouldn't?

Is it miscommunication with someone thinking the guards aren't available or more sinister than that?

I note one train yesterday was cancelled less than 10 minutes before it was due to depart. How come they only knew this at the last minute?

Could a guard defy the order and work the train in service, even though it was meant to run ECS?

I fear there is a mixture of sinister-ness and genuine late cancellation. At my depot from signing on to working a train is as little as 12 minutes, if someone just doesn't come in that is a very late notice cancellation.

Meerkat · 3 Jan 2020

Is it unduly cynical to suggest that SWR drivers are lower paid because SWR are ‘saving’ the pay increases to make a generous sounding offer clearly including whatever DOO/DCO they agree with the RMT (or force through)?

TEW · 3 Jan 2020

Carlisle said:
From a human nature perspective possibly bosses & others who’ve been pulling their hair out trying to keep things running over the last month don’t have huge appetite for immediately busting a gut chasing after returning members of the workforce who are perhaps viewed as essentially having had their feet up over that same period.

There was no need to chase after anyone. A number of rostered guards turns were cancelled, with some of those guards being given alternative work, but others just being spare instead at the same times as the turn they should have done. The free day system in place means that they would not have needed to chase anyone who had volunteered to work either.

The reduced timetable in operation these two days is a very simple one to implement from SWR granted, but I am struggling to find much logic behind it.

TEW · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
Who decides this stuff and why? If guards are sat spare and were due to work the train, who decides they shouldn't?

Is it miscommunication with someone thinking the guards aren't available or more sinister than that?

I note one train yesterday was cancelled less than 10 minutes before it was due to depart. How come they only knew this at the last minute?

Could a guard defy the order and work the train in service, even though it was meant to run ECS?

A number of guards turn were cancelled and all the trains within those turns changed to ECS. The ones to be cancelled were decided about a week beforehand, I am not sure on what basis it was decided which turns to cancel, but it was not on the availability of the guard rostered to work that turn.

There were some late notice cancellations yesterday but that appears to have been more down to lack of drivers than lack of guards.

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

TEW said:
A number of guards turn were cancelled and all the trains within those turns changed to ECS. The ones to be cancelled were decided about a week beforehand, I am not sure on what basis it was decided which turns to cancel, but it was not on the availability of the guard rostered to work that turn.

There were some late notice cancellations yesterday but that appears to have been more down to lack of drivers than lack of guards.

So what would happen if a guard choose to work a train booked to run ECS?

TEW · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
So what would happen if a guard choose to work a train booked to run ECS?

In theory they could be disciplined, as if they are shown as spare they should only work a train as instructed by the duty resource managers. They couldn't just decide to work the train themselves.

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

TEW said:
In theory they could be disciplined, as if they are shown as spare they should only work a train as instructed by the duty resource managers. They couldn't just decide to work the train themselves.

But could the union then say but they were helping to work a train that otherwise would be cancelled. The negative publicity from such a thing on SWR.....

I appreciate a member of staff may not want the risk.

3141 · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
But could the union then say but they were helping to work a train that otherwise would be cancelled. The negative publicity from such a thing on SWR.....

Yes, I expect the union could say that, even though it's spent the past month doing its best to ensure that trains did get cancelled.

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

3141 said:
Yes, I expect the union could say that, even though it's spent the past month doing its best to ensure that trains did get cancelled.

They could then add and SWR are always trying their best to cancel some trains too.

At least this way passengers might have resentment to both and think they are as bad as each other, rather than thinking the union is bad and not SWR. To be fair I don't know what passengers think already.

pompeyfan · 3 Jan 2020

I think you’re over thinking it. If the duty resource manager tells you to sit spare because your next working is cancelled, that is exactly what you do. You can’t just decide on a whim that you want to work your train.

Carlisle · 3 Jan 2020

TEW said:
There was no need to chase after anyone. A number of rostered guards turns were cancelled, with some of those guards being given alternative work, but others just being spare instead at the same times as the turn they should have done. The free day system in place means that they would not have needed to chase anyone who had volunteered to work either.

The reduced timetable in operation these two days is a very simple one to implement from SWR granted, but I am struggling to find much logic behind it.

Thanks for the information, let’s hope both sides can now soon reach an agreement

dctraindriver · 3 Jan 2020

Meerkat said:
Is it unduly cynical to suggest that SWR drivers are lower paid because SWR are ‘saving’ the pay increases to make a generous sounding offer clearly including whatever DOO/DCO they agree with the RMT (or force through)?

If drivers receive a vote on the pay deal I will be voting no to it as I want the person I work with to maintain the role they currently do. I also think rumours of a significant pay rise (heard 70 mentioned) is just pie in the sky.

theironroad · 3 Jan 2020

WombatDeath said:
Out of interest, what's the difference to the driver between driving a 12 car train instead of a 10 car train? I'm not disputing from my position of ignorance that there is a difference, just wondering what it is.

Tbh, not a lot. Really just remembering it's 12 rather than 10. Some stop car marks are 10-12, so combined anyway. If it's a 12 car mark on its own not far from the 10 then needs to be 100% on the mark as probably a very tight length platform.

Only other issue is slight extra length when clearing speed restrictions etc.

I don't drive doo.

theironroad · 3 Jan 2020

Goldfish62 said:
What a farce. Mind you, a insider friend told me this also used to happen in SWT days when there was general disruption.

It was a bit. There seemed to be random cancellations, random omissions from the timetable. The journey planners weren't updated for passengers until hours beforehand by the exchanges on twitter. there did seem to be a !of of ECS moves yesterday and certainly at my depot some guards were still spare.
Having said that my diagram yesterday was exactly as it should have been since the new timetable on 15/12 and all ran pretty much ok.

See what happens today.(•‿•)

Carlisle · 3 Jan 2020

dctraindriver said:
If drivers receive a vote on the pay deal I will be voting no to it as I want the person I work with to maintain the role they currently do. .

On modern inner suburban railways in particular , that’s becoming increasingly unlikely, the world over .

theironroad · 3 Jan 2020

pompeyfan said:
I think you’re over thinking it. If the duty resource manager tells you to sit spare because your next working is cancelled, that is exactly what you do. You can’t just decide on a whim that you want to work your train.

+1
...

theironroad · 3 Jan 2020

Carlisle said:
On modern inner suburban railways , that’s becoming increasingly unlikely, the world over .

And there are countless other threads on RF about driverless trains.

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

pompeyfan said:
I think you’re over thinking it. If the duty resource manager tells you to sit spare because your next working is cancelled, that is exactly what you do. You can’t just decide on a whim that you want to work your train.

Well there needs to be a public inquiry into why SWR didn't have guards working their trains when they could of done. We need the truth as to what happened and why it happened. I suspect some of those who know the turrth don't wants us have this.

I mean did they think less guards would be avilable? Did someone simply make a mistake and miscalculate something or was it done on purpose?

If SWR try to recover losses from the RMT for Thursday or Friday, I can see this going to court, especially if staff were sat around spare.

I once worked as a contractor for an organisation where it appeared as if management were trying to erode staff rights and the chef union reps were swinging their legs. In between were those just wanting to do an honest day's work, with the terms and conditions they signed up to when they started their employment.

HamworthyGoods · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
Well there needs to be a public inquiry into why SWR didn't have guards working their trains when they could of done. We need the truth as to what happened and why it happened. I suspect some of those who know the turrth don't wants us have this.

I mean did they think less guards would be avilable? Did someone simply make a mistake and miscalculate something or was it done on purpose?

If SWR try to recover losses from the RMT for Thursday or Friday, I can see this going to court, especially if staff were sat around spare.

I once worked as a contractor for an organisation where it appeared as if management were trying to erode staff rights and the chef union reps were swinging their legs. In between were those just wanting to do an honest day's work, with the terms and conditions they signed up to when they started their employment.

A public enquiry into SWR running a reduced service when they said in advance they were running a reduced service?

Robertj21a · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
Well there needs to be a public inquiry into why SWR didn't have guards working their trains when they could of done. We need the truth as to what happened and why it happened. I suspect some of those who know the turrth don't wants us have this.

I mean did they think less guards would be avilable? Did someone simply make a mistake and miscalculate something or was it done on purpose?

If SWR try to recover losses from the RMT for Thursday or Friday, I can see this going to court, especially if staff were sat around spare.

I once worked as a contractor for an organisation where it appeared as if management were trying to erode staff rights and the chef union reps were swinging their legs. In between were those just wanting to do an honest day's work, with the terms and conditions they signed up to when they started their employment.

You don't get Public Inquiries for something as trivial as this.

Starmill · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
Well there needs to be a public inquiry into why SWR didn't have guards working their trains when they could of done. We need the truth as to what happened and why it happened. I suspect some of those who know the turrth don't wants us have this.

I'm not sure this is the purpose of a public inquiry.

If you felt particularly strongly about the reduced timetable operating at the moment, you could ask the office of your MP to write to SWR requesting a detailed technical explanation. They will probably oblige by giving a fairly comprehensive response. Your MP would need some specific questions around the dates you're interested in, and maybe a bit of background about which dates the industrial action took place on, but they've probably already had contacts about the strike from other constituents.

WA_Driver · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
Well there needs to be a public inquiry into why SWR didn't have guards working their trains when they could of done. We need the truth as to what happened and why it happened. I suspect some of those who know the turrth don't wants us have this.

I mean did they think less guards would be avilable? Did someone simply make a mistake and miscalculate something or was it done on purpose?

If SWR try to recover losses from the RMT for Thursday or Friday, I can see this going to court, especially if staff were sat around spare.

I once worked as a contractor for an organisation where it appeared as if management were trying to erode staff rights and the chef union reps were swinging their legs. In between were those just wanting to do an honest day's work, with the terms and conditions they signed up to when they started their employment.

Got a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a public enquiry for something you had advance warning for

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

HamworthyGoods said:
A public enquiry into SWR running a reduced service when they said in advance they were running a reduced service?

The fact they might have lied about the reasons. Unless of course lying is perfectly acceptable in public life. In which case everyone should be doing it more often.

infobleep · 3 Jan 2020

Starmill said:
I'm not sure this is the purpose of a public inquiry.

If you felt particularly strongly about the reduced timetable operating at the moment, you could ask the office of your MP to write to SWR requesting a detailed technical explanation. They will probably oblige by giving a fairly comprehensive response. Your MP would need some specific questions around the dates you're interested in, and maybe a bit of background about which dates the industrial action took place on, but they've probably already had contacts about the strike from other constituents.

I know why they ran a reduced timetable up to and including Wednesday but not the real reasons for Thursday or Friday, if what some say on here is true.

Your right I could write to my MP. I'd forgotten about that route.

Goldfish62 · 3 Jan 2020

infobleep said:
I know why they ran a reduced timetable up to and including Wednesday but not the real reasons for Thursday or Friday, if what some say on here is true.

Your right I could write to my MP. I'd forgotten about that route.

I would also send an FOI request to the DfT seeking copies of all relevant correspondence between the respective parties.

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