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Progress of delivery of cascaded/refurbished/PRM modified stock to TFW/Wales and Borders

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Cardiff123

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In fairness to TfW, there is one diagram Monday - Friday that is down as 142/143 on this list of Pacer workings on this page: https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility

It starts as the 0622 Aberdare - Barry Island, then 0756 Barry Island - Merthyr Tydfil, 0938 Merthyr Tydfil - Bridgend, 1142 Bridgend - Cardiff Central etc.
But seeing as the 0756 from Barry Island must be a double Pacer, or after Barry Docks people can't board, it's pretty poor that this was a single 142 today.
I was surprised that TfW have been given so much flexibility by the DfT regarding their Pacer derogations. GWR and Northern have strict criteria attached to their derogations that Pacers can only work in multiple with compliant 150s and/or only on certain routes. TfW basically have free rein to send Pacers wherever they want, alone or in multiple.
 
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IamTrainsYT

IamTrainsYT

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i have made a list of 142s that i posted on another forum and thought i would share the TFW ones here, it has the planned withdrawal dates for the pacers and what livery they are in :)


Number - Operator - Livery - Depot - Notes

142002 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142006 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142010 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142012 - Transport For Wales - Unbranded Northern Purple and Blue - Landore - Use for spare parts
142069 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142072 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142073 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142074 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142075 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142076 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142077 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142079 - Transport For Wales - Unbranded Northern Purple and Blue - Landore - Use for spare parts
142080 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142081 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142082 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142083 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142085 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
142086 - Transport For Wales - Unbranded Northern Purple and Blue - Cardiff Canton - Use for spare parts
143601 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Journey is Almost Over for Old Trains" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143602 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143604 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton -staying till 31/7/20
143605 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "These Trains will Terminate Soon" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143606 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "These Trains will Terminate Soon" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143607 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143608 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Journey is Almost Over for Old Trains - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143609 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143610 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Journey is Almost Over for Old Trains" - Cardiff Canton -staying till 31/7/20
143614 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Journey is Almost Over for Old Trains" - Cardiff Canton -staying till 31/7/20
143616 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "These Trains will Terminate Soon" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143622 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "These Trains will Terminate Soon" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143623 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "These Trains will Terminate Soon" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143624 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Journey is Almost Over for Old Trains" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
143625 - Transport For Wales - TFW Black "The Start of a New Journey" - Cardiff Canton - staying till 31/7/20
 
anamyd

anamyd

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Cardiff123 said:
In fairness to TfW, there is one diagram Monday - Friday that is down as 142/143 on this list of Pacer workings on this page: https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility

It starts as the 0622 Aberdare - Barry Island, then 0756 Barry Island - Merthyr Tydfil, 0938 Merthyr Tydfil - Bridgend, 1142 Bridgend - Cardiff Central etc.
But seeing as the 0756 from Barry Island must be a double Pacer, or after Barry Docks people can't board, it's pretty poor that this was a single 142 today.
I was surprised that TfW have been given so much flexibility by the DfT regarding their Pacer derogations. GWR and Northern have strict criteria attached to their derogations that Pacers can only work in multiple with compliant 150s and/or only on certain routes. TfW basically have free rein to send Pacers wherever they want, alone or in multiple.
Click to expand...
It was stated in the Senedd that TfW Rail would've done the coupling to a compliant unit thing but they didn't have sufficient stock to do so - maybe that has something to do with it...?
 
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Anonymous10

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Cardiff123 said:
In fairness to TfW, there is one diagram Monday - Friday that is down as 142/143 on this list of Pacer workings on this page: https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility
Likely a lack of compliant 150s is to blame as they need to provide a service so the 150's could still operate usual routs
It starts as the 0622 Aberdare - Barry Island, then 0756 Barry Island - Merthyr Tydfil, 0938 Merthyr Tydfil - Bridgend, 1142 Bridgend - Cardiff Central etc.
But seeing as the 0756 from Barry Island must be a double Pacer, or after Barry Docks people can't board, it's pretty poor that this was a single 142 today.
I was surprised that TfW have been given so much flexibility by the DfT regarding their Pacer derogations. GWR and Northern have strict criteria attached to their derogations that Pacers can only work in multiple with compliant 150s and/or only on certain routes. TfW basically have free rein to send Pacers wherever they want, alone or in multiple.
Click to expand...
Possibly a lack of compliant stock
 
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PHILIPE

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Cardiff123 said:
In fairness to TfW, there is one diagram Monday - Friday that is down as 142/143 on this list of Pacer workings on this page: https://tfwrail.wales/accessible-travel/train-accessibility

It starts as the 0622 Aberdare - Barry Island, then 0756 Barry Island - Merthyr Tydfil, 0938 Merthyr Tydfil - Bridgend, 1142 Bridgend - Cardiff Central etc.
But seeing as the 0756 from Barry Island must be a double Pacer, or after Barry Docks people can't board, it's pretty poor that this was a single 142 today.
I was surprised that TfW have been given so much flexibility by the DfT regarding their Pacer derogations. GWR and Northern have strict criteria attached to their derogations that Pacers can only work in multiple with compliant 150s and/or only on certain routes. TfW basically have free rein to send Pacers wherever they want, alone or in multiple.
Click to expand...

I don't see that it has to be a double Pacer as it seems to be TFWs own plan. As they are not attaching them to a compliant unit, it shouldn't really matter.
 
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Cardiff123

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PHILIPE said:
I don't see that it has to be a double Pacer as it seems to be TFWs own plan. As they are not attaching them to a compliant unit, it shouldn't really matter.
Click to expand...
It has to be a double Pacer because otherwise, like I said, after Barry Docks people are then prevented from boarding at every station towards Cardiff. When I used to get this train under ATW I struggled to get on it when it was a double Pacer, if it was ever a single Pacer I had no chance and neither did anyone else.
 
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PHILIPE

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Cardiff123 said:
It has to be a double Pacer because otherwise, like I said, after Barry Docks people are then prevented from boarding at every station towards Cardiff. When I used to get this train under ATW I struggled to get on it when it was a double Pacer, if it was ever a single Pacer I had no chance and neither did anyone else.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be a Double Pacer if there isn't one available, regrettably. Judging from Twitter Posts today TFW have been very short of stock which has led to buses supplementing trains to Aberdare and Merthyr this evening. The commuters went back to work today, and following TFWs recent statements, expected to find 4 cars on the Valleys with all the 170s and more 153s being introduced into service. Then, of course, the Depots were were working hard to get all the cripples back into service. Let down.
 
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Bikeman78

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Mrs. Fortescue said:
and?

that’s irrelevant - the PRM deadline came in yesterday; meaning that 142/143s were limited to certain tune, which are publicised on their website and Journey Check website.

something which appears to be totally ignored today.
Click to expand...
Rhymney line needs nine pairs. Three singles on Radyr to Coryton. Most days there are 26 or 27 Pacers in service so the rest will presumably turn up anywhere.
 
anamyd

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PHILIPE said:
It doesn't have to be a Double Pacer if there isn't one available, regrettably. Judging from Twitter Posts today TFW have been very short of stock which has led to buses supplementing trains to Aberdare and Merthyr this evening. The commuters went back to work today, and following TFWs recent statements, expected to find 4 cars on the Valleys with all the 170s and more 153s being introduced into service. Then, of course, the Depots were were working hard to get all the cripples back into service. Let down.
Click to expand...
only 3 170s were out today.
 
kieron

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Cardiff123 said:
I was surprised that TfW have been given so much flexibility by the DfT regarding their Pacer derogations.
Click to expand...
I wonder if it's partly because the TfW franchise isn't managed by the DfT? The Welsh Government could tell TfW Rail to only use non-compliant trains on specific lines, but they couldn't use the Equality Act to do this because the right to grant exemptions lies with the DfT.
 
anamyd

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I think a non-derogated non-PRM unit (the only exception to my knowledge) - 153329 - was accidentally used today.
 
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6Gtraincrew

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33017 said:
Out of interest, why do you believe there is no derogation for 153329?
Click to expand...

I noticed that 153329 was not listed on either of the degradation letters. There was a letter for the Porterbrook 153's and one for the Angel Trains ones. Not listed on either. No idea who owns 329
 
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33017

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6Gtraincrew said:
I noticed that 153329 was not listed on either of the degradation letters. There was a letter for the Porterbrook 153's and one for the Angel Trains ones. Not listed on either. No idea who owns 329
Click to expand...
Just looked. It’s a typo. 153326 is on the TfW list yet that’s a WMR unit...
 
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6Gtraincrew

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That's because Tfw have applied for degradation for the four units they are having from wmt 310, 313, 321 and 326
 
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6Gtraincrew

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Well wherever they are coming from, I presume tfw expect them to join the fleet as all four are listed on their dispensation letters.
 
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tomos dafis

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PHILIPE said:
It doesn't have to be a Double Pacer if there isn't one available, regrettably. Judging from Twitter Posts today TFW have been very short of stock which has led to buses supplementing trains to Aberdare and Merthyr this evening. The commuters went back to work today, and following TFWs recent statements, expected to find 4 cars on the Valleys with all the 170s and more 153s being introduced into service. Then, of course, the Depots were were working hard to get all the cripples back into service. Let down.
Click to expand...
The fact that only 3 or 4 of the (10 so far) cascaded 170's are in service and none of the 5 ex-GA 153's have so far appeared means that TFW have not had the boost to the number of serviceable units expected. It prompts the question as to what state the ex-GA 170's and 153's were in when handed over - considering many of the 170's went to Tyseley for remedial work and the 153's have had to go to Chrysalis for similar and they are still mostly not fit for use? Slow driver training may be hampering 170 use (though a couple have failed in service - I was on one that terminated early!) but that cannot be the reason why the 153's are not yet in use surely?
 
anamyd

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sd0733 said:
All of those 4 are EMR units, although 326 is currently with WMT.
Click to expand...
Ah, that makes much more sense if they're EMR units not WMT ones.

(East Midlands Railway not West Midlands Trains)
 
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I can understand TFW having to use pacers on some services due to only a small number of 170s being in service and having been let down with the 230s and 769s resulting in far less 150s available to replace pacers and also the general shortage of units i.e quite a few 150s being needed for Manchester and Holyhead services to South Wales. I assume when they do turn up on non valley line services they are not booked and just deputising for whatever class is booked for that particular service. I don't really see the need for them to be used in West Wales and on Swanline. Surely they can be limited to Cardiff Local services given 9 pairs are needed for Rhymney and another 3 sets for City Line. Not that many spare after that given 26 are available each day.
 
anamyd

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Sion John said:
You mean GWR 150/2 GWR don't have 150/1 or 153s now
Click to expand...
Sion, TfW's 153325/329/333/361/369 transferred from GWR in April 2019, so the information Parallel provided is relevant for the 153s! 150/1s not so much.
 
anamyd

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anthony263 said:
Seems some of east Midlands class 153s have moved to crewe supposedly for transfer to tfw.
Click to expand...
153310/313/321/326, credit to @LowLevel who provided this information yesterday in the East Midlands Railway livery and station branding thread. What location do I need to type into realtime…? The closest one I can find is Crewe C.S.

Also, I read this in RAIL 895, on page 21:

RAIL said:

Meanwhile, Vivarail has yet to deliver any of the five hybrid Class 230s for TfW. These will now no longer serve the Conwy Valley line due to gauging restraints, and instead will run between Wrexham-Bidston and Crewe-Chester.
The first of the five three-car '230s' is undergoing testing at Long Marston, while driver training is using 230002 on the main line.
Click to expand...
So, what will be the allocated stock in the new TfW Rail fleet for the Conwy Valley line, if not the 230s...?
 
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krus_aragon

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anamyd said:
153310/313/321/326, credit to @LowLevel who provided this information yesterday in the East Midlands Railway livery and station branding thread. What location do I need to type into realtime…? The closest one I can find is Crewe C.S.
Click to expand...
On the basis of this working yesterday, I suspect Crewe C.S. (LNWR) is the one to keep an eye on.
 
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