Reliability of existing class 483 stock on IoW railway

hermit · 12 Nov 2019

Hadders said:
I do seriously wonder how long the 483s can soldier on for. I suspect things are going to get worse before they get better. The industry has known about this for years, I really don't understand why it's taken so long to come up with a solution.

I remember that we were told in the mid-2000s that the trains could not possibly be maintained for more than a year or two, yet here we are. The engineering staff certainly deserve all credit for proving the predictions wrong, but the fact that the trains have proved so very reliable over the years certainly took the pressure off finding replacements.

A lot of time has also been wasted in searching for alternative solutions which the Treasury and some local politicians hoped would save money (at least for central government). So there was talk of unloading the line on to the local authority, converting to trams or hatching up some deal with the private sector. These ideas proved illusory, but it was largely due to the efforts of a local pressure group, who insisted that the line should not be treated differently from similar branch lines elsewhere on the network, that we have ended up with the present plans which amount basically to modernising the existing setup. But the decision could and should have been made years ago.

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Rick1984 · 12 Nov 2019

Is the current unreliability purely a case of time sadly finally catching up with the trains?

Hadders · 12 Nov 2019

Rick1984 said:
Is the current unreliability purely a case of time sadly finally catching up with the trains?

Others will know better than me but as I understand it they are down to one train working plus the power supply is as good as life expired.

I think a 2nd train is potentially serviceable but the issue is obtaining parts. Things don't look good when passengers are told to only travel in one car of the single train that is running.

Chris125 · 13 Nov 2019

Rick1984 said:
Is the current unreliability purely a case of time sadly finally catching up with the trains?

There are many factors, but things have only fallen apart since 004 was withdrawn - that unit, as awful as it looked on the outside, was in such good condition that it seemed to work almost continuously and has been the backbone of the service for several years.

Alas 006 and (unsurprisingly given how it sounds) 008 have proved to be a lot less dependable, with no third unit to compensate.

Chris125 · 21 Nov 2019

Back to a two-train service? Nothing on the SWR website.

Bletchleyite · 21 Nov 2019

Chris125 said:
There are many factors, but things have only fallen apart since 004 was withdrawn - that unit, as awful as it looked on the outside, was in such good condition that it seemed to work almost continuously and has been the backbone of the service for several years.

Alas 006 and (unsurprisingly given how it sounds) 008 have proved to be a lot less dependable, with no third unit to compensate.

Why was that one withdrawn, then, if it was the best one?

Chris125 · 21 Nov 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Why was that one withdrawn, then, if it was the best one?

They warned of disruption in advance so it wasn't unexpected, perhaps due an exam of some kind? It must have clocked up some serious mileage since it's last overhaul.

Chris125 · 23 Nov 2019

I think they managed three days... https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/live-departures-and-arrivals

We were earlier informed of a train fault on the Island Line. The affected train has now been removed and the line has reopened. Until the end of service the line will be operating a reduced hourly train service.

Rick1984 · 25 Nov 2019

I think it was 406 that got a nice new shiny coat of paint. You'd think it would be reliable

Chris125 · 27 Dec 2019

We finally have a two-train service again, can it survive more than a few days?

friday74 · 2 Jan 2020

Piece in the Grauniad, for what it's worth...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-charming-ex-tube-trains-face-end-of-the-line

Dr_Paul · 2 Jan 2020

friday74 said:
Piece in the Grauniad, for what it's worth...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-charming-ex-tube-trains-face-end-of-the-line

I was just going to post that link when I saw your post. It's typical of the Isle of Wight that the 'new' stock there is about 40 years old.

I wonder if anyone thought of using the Class 487 stock on the Isle when they were withdrawn from the Waterloo and City Line in the early 1990s. They would have been 50 years old by then, but surely that's not too ancient for the Isle.

D365 · 3 Jan 2020

Dr_Paul said:
I wonder if anyone thought of using the Class 487 stock on the Isle when they were withdrawn from the Waterloo and City Line in the early 1990s. They would have been 50 years old by then, but surely that's not too ancient for the Isle.

The Class 483s would have been "new" enough at that point.

Journeyman · 3 Jan 2020

Chris125 said:
We finally have a two-train service again, can it survive more than a few days?

Nope! I was on the island on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Hourly service both days. Mostly unit 6, although when we arrived unit 8 took us from the pier to St. John's Road, where we had to change.

I went over because my son was keen to ride the trains before they go. I'm glad we went when we did, Island Line really does seem to be on its last legs right now, and I question whether it can keep going until the new stock arrives.

Journeyman · 3 Jan 2020

Dr_Paul said:
I wonder if anyone thought of using the Class 487 stock on the Isle when they were withdrawn from the Waterloo and City Line in the early 1990s. They would have been 50 years old by then, but surely that's not too ancient for the Isle.

The 487s were considered as potential replacements for the first generation of tube stock on the island, but they lasted longer in London than most people expected, and the island trains needed replacing before then.

The 483s were given a very extensive rebuild for island duties, so were in pretty decent nick when they entered service. They were intended to be good for ten years, so it's not bad they've lasted three times that long.

samuelmorris · 3 Jan 2020

Journeyman said:
Nope! I was on the island on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Hourly service both days. Mostly unit 6, although when we arrived unit 8 took us from the pier to St. John's Road, where we had to change.

I went over because my son was keen to ride the trains before they go. I'm glad we went when we did, Island Line really does seem to be on its last legs right now, and I question whether it can keep going until the new stock arrives.

This doesn't really make much sense to me. If the 483s could be run fairly solidly at 60 years of age, then 80 or even 100 years shouldn't really be any different, they must all be ships of Theseus by now. Is it more that it's no longer possible to source replacement parts for them? I'm not saying the route doesn't deserve new(er) rolling stock but it seems odd the service has degraded so substantially in recent years.

hwl · 3 Jan 2020

samuelmorris said:
This doesn't really make much sense to me. If the 483s could be run fairly solidly at 60 years of age, then 80 or even 100 years shouldn't really be any different, they must all be ships of Theseus by now. Is it more that it's no longer possible to source replacement parts for them? I'm not saying the route doesn't deserve new(er) rolling stock but it seems odd the service has degraded so substantially in recent years.

a) They are now virtually out of spare units to cannibalise from
b) they usually relied on having 2 very good reliability units to run most of the service, they have lost this with the best being overhauled and not being as reliable there after. They don't have the space/staff to deal with lots of units at once which is now what the situation is.
c) They have limited facilities on the IoW, transporting some (i.e. the worst?) to the mainland for a full strip down + overhaul (e.g. what they got before being sent over) would be sensible is they weren't just going to be scrapped soon.

They started out with 10x 2 car units (and 11 extra vehicles were bought and cannibalised to provide a spare parts stock) scrapped to provide, 4 units have been scrapped over the years on the IoW, 2 units are being cannibalised currently leaving 4 units to provide 2 units in service with 1 unit usually in pieces (planned).

Chris125 · 3 Jan 2020

samuelmorris said:
This doesn't really make much sense to me. If the 483s could be run fairly solidly at 60 years of age, then 80 or even 100 years shouldn't really be any different, they must all be ships of Theseus by now. Is it more that it's no longer possible to source replacement parts for them? I'm not saying the route doesn't deserve new(er) rolling stock but it seems odd the service has degraded so substantially in recent years.

I suspect the age and condition of the wiring is a big issue on at least some of the units, and that isn't easy to address without a long term future for the units.

samuelmorris · 3 Jan 2020

Fair comment, but why has the overhaul process reduced the reliability of the units?

Journeyman · 3 Jan 2020

Chris125 said:
I suspect the age and condition of the wiring is a big issue on at least some of the units, and that isn't easy to address without a long term future for the units.

Shouldn't be. The wiring was found to be badly corroded when the units were converted for IoW service in 1989, so it was completely replaced, with some fairly major electrical modifications - far more than they did with the previous stock.

Chris125 · 3 Jan 2020

Journeyman said:
Nope! I was on the island on New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Hourly service both days. Mostly unit 6, although when we arrived unit 8 took us from the pier to St. John's Road, where we had to change.

I think that was reported locally as staff illness?

Journeyman said:
Shouldn't be. The wiring was found to be badly corroded when the units were converted for IoW service in 1989, so it was completely replaced, with some fairly major electrical modifications - far more than they did with the previous stock.

True but those 30 years haven't been kind - apparently 004's reliability was down to the significant flood damage it received some years back, and the thoroughness of the overhaul that followed.

WesternLancer · 4 Jan 2020

Is there a planned / published timescale for the replacement stock to start and the 1938 stock to be withdrawn?

Dstock7080 · 4 Jan 2020

WesternLancer said:
Is there a planned / published timescale for the replacement stock to start and the 1938 stock to be withdrawn?

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/new-tr...-confirmed-as-future-of-island-line-revealed/

Proposed Island Line Upgrade Programme

Click to expand...

September 2019 Island Line investment announcement made at Brading
- Late 2019-2020 Build of new Vivarail Class 484 trains begins at Long Marston, Midlands
- Late 2019 onwards Design and planning work for Island Line infrastructure
- April 2020 Testing begins on first Class 484 Island Line unit
- Spring 2020 Wifi and Ticket Machines installed at stations
- Summer 2020 First Class 484 train arrives on the Isle of Wight for testing
- October/November 2020 More new Class 484 carriages arrive on the Isle of Wight
- Winter 2020/2021 Disruption during infrastructure works – shuttle service in operation
- February 2021 Final new Class 484 carriages delivered
- March 2021 Last 1938 stock Island Line train decommissioned
- May 2021 Brand new timetable introduced with new trains

WesternLancer · 5 Jan 2020

Dstock7080 said:
https://www.islandecho.co.uk/new-tr...-confirmed-as-future-of-island-line-revealed/

Many thanks - v helpful info!

Reliability of existing class 483 stock on IoW railway

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