• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Cross-Country Consultation 2018- what happened to the results?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mogz

Member
Joined
20 May 2019
Messages
445
I remember that before the decision was taken to extend the current franchise there was a passenger consultation about the future of Cross Country services.

Does anyone know whether the results were collated for some future purpose or just binned?

I would be interested to see some of the responses!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
I remember that before the decision was taken to extend the current franchise there was a passenger consultation about the future of Cross Country services.

Does anyone know whether the results were collated for some future purpose or just binned?

I would be interested to see some of the responses!
New franchsie ITT quietly dropped when DfT realised how much was needed and the inter-dependencies on other franchsies/changes?
Many issues and potential solutions depend on what other operators do improvement wise e.g. Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Leeds / Doncaster capacity improvements from LNER /TPE /First Open access.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
New franchsie ITT quietly dropped when DfT realised how much was needed and the inter-dependencies on other franchsies/changes?

I thought it was more that they only, on the quiet, had one bidder. Arriva, the incumbent. And they realised that running a competition with two bidders (SWR) was bad running it with one was downright impossible...
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
I thought it was more that they only, on the quiet, had one bidder. Arriva, the incumbent. And they realised that running a competition with two bidders (SWR) was bad running it with one was downright impossible...
That was the other problem!
 

XC victim

Member
Joined
16 Dec 2015
Messages
150
New franchsie ITT quietly dropped when DfT realised how much was needed and the inter-dependencies on other franchsies/changes?
Many issues and potential solutions depend on what other operators do improvement wise e.g. Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Leeds / Doncaster capacity improvements from LNER /TPE /First Open access.

Sorry I really can’t believe that the dft (the department with overall responsibility for our rail system) failed to understand the inter-dependency of our rail system.

Are we actually sure that Arriva actually bid for the CrossCountry franchise, given the time they are taking sorting out the Direct Award you kinda get the feeling even Arriva are not too bothered about running the Crosscountry franchise
 

LUSOwner

Member
Joined
30 Dec 2019
Messages
55
Location
London
Sorry I really can’t believe that the dft (the department with overall responsibility for our rail system) failed to understand the inter-dependency of our rail system.

Are we actually sure that Arriva actually bid for the CrossCountry franchise, given the time they are taking sorting out the Direct Award you kinda get the feeling even Arriva are not too bothered about running the Crosscountry franchise

I'll be honest, I don't think Arriva are really bothered about any of the rail franchises they own; see Northern etc. What we require are simple answers from the bosses about their concern for their businesses.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
Sorry I really can’t believe that the dft (the department with overall responsibility for our rail system) failed to understand the inter-dependency of our rail system.
They did: They actually saw sense in that they knew they couldn't accurately enough predict what usage would be like on certain corridors post changes by upto 3 other operators - hence pressing the "pause" button till some /all of the other changes have happened
 

Jorge Da Silva

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2018
Messages
2,591
Location
Cleethorpes, North East Lincolnshire
The exact quote from the DfT:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cross-country-rail-franchise-2018-prospectus

The Secretary of State for Transport has announced a review of rail that will consider recommendations for reform to ensure the rail system continues to benefit passengers and support the economy.

The department has reviewed all ongoing franchise competitions and other live rail projects in the context of the rail review. Due to the unique geographic nature of the Cross Country franchise, which runs from Aberdeen to Penzance and cuts across multiple parts of the railway, awarding this franchise in 2019 could impact on the review’s conclusions. It has therefore been decided that this competition will not proceed.

Services will continue to be operated by the existing franchisee with options beyond this to be considered in due course. The department will consider the responses to the Cross Country public consultation in the development of future options for the franchise.

All other ongoing franchise competitions and other live rail projects are continuing as planned.
 

XC victim

Member
Joined
16 Dec 2015
Messages
150
Does anyone know what the current state of play with the Franchise is? As far as I am aware only a 1 Year Direct Award was awarded which finishes in October of this year.
 

RealTrains07

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2019
Messages
1,748
Well their is free wifi on all services now, although it doesn’t always work great.

Thats one improvement they have acted on?
 

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,072
Sorry I really can’t believe that the dft (the department with overall responsibility for our rail system) failed to understand the inter-dependency of our rail system.
Really? We must be living in different worlds. I can't believe how the DfT steam on making the same mistakes over and over again (or new making ones) when almost every franchise they have let has blown up in their faces - in reality in the faces of the users, I guess the civil servants are just obeying orders and praying that their own line doesn't go wrong!
Are we actually sure that Arriva actually bid for the CrossCountry franchise, given the time they are taking sorting out the Direct Award you kinda get the feeling even Arriva are not too bothered about running the Crosscountry franchise
I think the people bidding are only doing so out of party loyalty: They have made plenty of money but know the game's over, but don't want to embarrass the Tories by nobody bidding!
 

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790

Thanks for posting the link to the Transport Focus response - full of very sensible arguments. In particular, let's hope the decision making powers listen to what we all know is the obvious:

"Transport Focus believes that crowding must first and foremost be solved by introducing extra carriages and additional trains. This should be the starting point when dealing with crowding and explored as a priority option before station stops are removed from Cross Country services or routes are curtailed. Providing additional capacity is the only way to ensure the root cause of crowding on this franchise- too few and too short trains - is addressed."
 

Kettledrum

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2010
Messages
790
Firstly, HSTs are not as fast as Voyagers so the timetables will need much rearranging; and secondly, have you seen how slow Wabtec are turning refurbishment units out, despite their best efforts.

Interestingly the consultation found that journey times were not a main priority of the cross country passengers. Over crowding and the ability to get a seat were much bigger concerns.
 

The Prisoner

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2012
Messages
323
Just putting it out there - if Arriva’s franchise extension ends in October and the Williams report gives any encouragement to franchising continuing this is perfectly set up for Virgin to return, possibly with a new partner depending on what happens with the pensions thing. SNCF maybe?

The current franchise is very stale and I doubt Arriva have any sort of revolution in them, plus haven’t they got the same issue Stagecoach had with the pensions?
 

Jorge Da Silva

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2018
Messages
2,591
Location
Cleethorpes, North East Lincolnshire
Just putting it out there - if Arriva’s franchise extension ends in October and the Williams report gives any encouragement to franchising continuing this is perfectly set up for Virgin to return, possibly with a new partner depending on what happens with the pensions thing. SNCF maybe?

The current franchise is very stale and I doubt Arriva have any sort of revolution in them, plus haven’t they got the same issue Stagecoach had with the pensions?

Williams has said the franchising system will not continue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top