Nym
Established Member
Potentially more likely the desire for coupleable formations of maximum length and the limiting factor of St Pancras platforms?
Its because when they run in double formation, the longer 80x unit would be too long for the platform at St Pancras' so they have to be shorter.Why does the MML need shorter body shells? Is it a gauge issue with middle and end of cars swinging out more on curves? I know Mk4s won't fit up the MML on some platforms. It does seem unsatisfactory to have different fleet requirements on one of the three northbound main lines. Apologies as I am sure I've overlooked the answer elsewhere.
Correct. 10 cars of the Hitachi sets will be 240m, as will a 12-car 360.Its because when they run in double formation, the longer 80x unit would be too long for the platform at St Pancras' so they have to be shorter.
That will at least be consistent.Correct. 10 cars of the Hitachi sets will be 240m, as will a 12-car 360.
Do we know whether the uprated engine will be fitted?
Last time I heard, the GWR units have a 940hp engine for use on the steep Devon banks and LNER units had the standard 750hp engine.Uprated engine?
There's only one type of engine fitted to the 80xs
Last time I heard, the GWR units have a 940hp engine for use on the steep Devon banks and LNER units had the standard 750hp engine.
I could be wrong but this maybe refers to the original specification of the 80x engines being restricted in order to provide a longer life ie not run at their full power rating.Uprated engine?
There's only one type of engine fitted to the 80xs
In that case, the question is are the 804s going to be de-rated?Same engine, the LNER units have different software de-rating the engine
there's more to this than meets the eye. Someone posted upthread that one of the Railway magazines has shared details of the proposed configuration of the 5 cars and there's only 2 motored vehicles. This would have an effect on performance on electric, perhaps limiting them to 125mph (the 800/801/802s are 140mph on electric once ERTMS is rolled out). It was also announced that Hitachi have devised a way to deploy 4 diesel power packs. This would mean one diesel power pack per bogie, which means there's sufficient power to run the traction motors flat out on diesel, meaning no difference in performance on diesel vs electric. But with a top speed of 125mph. This looks interesting.In that case, the question is are the 804s going to be de-rated?
That still doesn't answer the question though. Can they have one extra engine and LNER software to derate? The power output of the derated engine, 750hp, is exactly the same as the current 222s.there's more to this than meets the eye. Someone posted upthread that one of the Railway magazines has shared details of the proposed configuration of the 5 cars and there's only 2 motored vehicles. This would have an effect on performance on electric, perhaps limiting them to 125mph (the 800/801/802s are 140mph on electric once ERTMS is rolled out). It was also announced that Hitachi have devised a way to deploy 4 diesel power packs. This would mean one diesel power pack per bogie, which means there's sufficient power to run the traction motors flat out on diesel, meaning no difference in performance on diesel vs electric. But with a top speed of 125mph. This looks interesting.
But only 4 engines for 5 cars, unlike a 222 which is 5 engines for 5 cars. As they have to match a 222 for performance, they will presumably have the full 940hp rating: that would give them 3,760hp vs 3,750hp for a 222.That still doesn't answer the question though. Can they have one extra engine and LNER software to derate? The power output of the derated engine, 750hp, is exactly the same as the current 222s.
And are the 804 carriages going to weigh more, do we know?But only 4 engines for 5 cars, unlike a 222 which is 5 engines for 5 cars. As they have to match a 222 for performance, they will presumably have the full 940hp rating: that would give them 3,760hp vs 3,750hp for a 222.
can't find the information to hand quickly but were the Voyagers not built using steel? The 80x is made of aluminium, therefore the 80x would be slightly lighter.And are the 804 carriages going to weigh more, do we know?
IIRC a year or so back Modern Railways published details of the weights of the various coaches of an IET.can't find the information to hand quickly but were the Voyagers not built using steel? The 80x is made of aluminium, therefore the 80x would be slightly lighter.
I believe that's correct. If the 80x are slightly lighter than the 22x, than logically they wouldn't need as much power to reach 125mph, but then again I'm probably wrong.can't find the information to hand quickly but were the Voyagers not built using steel? The 80x is made of aluminium, therefore the 80x would be slightly lighter.
Wait and see. I think you're not too far wide of the mark.I believe that's correct. If the 80x are slightly lighter than the 22x, than logically they wouldn't need as much power to reach 125mph, but then again I'm probably wrong.
Just out of interest, is the IGBT traction always been on the 22x units? If so, has it been developed or changed in any way for the 80x units?The Voyagers and Meridians use IGBT traction already.
The 22x units had IGBTs from new. Obviously there is going to have been some development since, but it’s a difficult comparison as one is Alstom the other Hitachi.Just out of interest, is the IGBT traction always been on the 22x units? If so, has it been developed or changed in any way for the 80x units?
I've learned something new today.The 22x units had IGBTs from new.
The renders show it being flatter and possibly steeper.Does anyone know how the profile of the nose will be changed?
Makes sense, probably to account for the shorter vehicles.The renders show it being flatter and possibly steeper.
The use of IGBT motors aligns near bang on the turn of the millenium for deliveries, so no particular surprise that the 22x units all carry them. The very last units without were the 323s I believe, which have been since retrofitted.
I thought the 365's entered service in 1995.I think I’m right in saying the 365 just beats the 323s. The 365s entered service around 1997, and have GTO traction packages (IIRC as per the 465/2s and 466).