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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway
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I'd say that very much depends on how testing and fault finding has been done elsewhere first.
Stabling will be a big issue.
As a thought - Hitachi temporary rectification and retrofit plant at Eastleigh shouldn't be busy for to much longer so that being available would help considerably.
20 a week for SWR and building Anglia's (~10 a week) at the same time is very different thing. That is nearly double what Siemens were turning out of Krefeld at it absolute peak.
With the 345s they were averaging about 11 a week + some 710s and S Stock signalling wiring retrofits at Derby.
Goldfish62
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Well, we can only go on what Bombardier say they can produce and I assume they'd know...
RealTrains07
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Sounds alot to be desired?! I thought the plan was for 701s to start entry into service in the middle of the year not the whole fleet??
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Goldfish62
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Well, I can only quote what Modern Railways reports.
Not sure where you got the middle of next year from for the first units. That would make them two years late!
RealTrains07
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They will only be a year late at most. I’am not sure where you got 2018 from but as far as I know I thought entry was always said to be early 2019??
I would say SWR reporting that the whole fleet going to be in service in less than 6 months is gonna be desirable on their part.
Northern tried the same thing in 2018 they promised the 195s would be in service by ‘early’ 2019 but the first one didn’t even enter service until July 1st!
1st unit entry will be most likely mid 2020 (not the whole fleet):
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...on-aventra-unveiled-but-entry-delayed-to-2020
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RealTrains07
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We can all agree the 701s will be here this year but realistically considering bombardier have a lot of catching up to do with GA and the last remaining 710s
Plus driver training is going to take time to do to a satisfactory standard
Plus driver training is going to take time to do to a satisfactory standard
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Can we expect to see similar delays from software all other Aventuras have suffered. Excuse my ignorance but if the 720s are more late than the 701s why does there feel like there's more push to get these into service. Don't mean to go off topic but what stage are the 720s at, have bombardier been able to use all their lessons/experience and effectively get these right first time?
Route familiarisation has nothing to do with introducing new traction.
As for traction training I would expect aslef to agree a minimum of at least a week of traction familiarisation/training for the new stock.
Goldfish62
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We're in 2020 now....They will only be a year late at most. I’am not sure where you got 2018 from but as far as I know I thought entry was always said to be early 2019??
I would say SWR reporting that the whole fleet going to be in service in less than 6 months is gonna be desirable on their part.
Northern tried the same thing in 2018 they promised the 195s would be in service by ‘early’ 2019 but the first one didn’t even enter service until July 1st!
1st unit entry will be most likely mid 2020 (not the whole fleet):
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...on-aventra-unveiled-but-entry-delayed-to-2020
NewSt
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I think you mean the middle of this year (it's 2020 now!).
Does anyone have any insight on the nature of the software issues? AFAIK no 720 or 701 has turned a wheel on normal NR track. A 720 has moved at Old Dalby but apparently was taken there by road. Speculating, but indicates to me that software / control system is so defective that it is not considered safe. To state obvious, until software works safely none are going to be delivered and until software is safe all possible delivery dates are just finger in the air guesstimates.
Snow1964
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Stabling will be interesting one, of course in old days used to stable loads of spare stock at Micheldever and at Oatlands (Walton on Thames) but these bulk storage sites now don’t exist. Most of the electrified sidings at Fratton and Portsmouth and Southsea low level have also gone.
There are a couple of very long sidings at Wimbledon (with overhead lamps), on South side, electrified but in poor condition (few saplings growing). Maybe some room at Eastleigh yard. A number of little used sidings at places like Durnsford Road can’t take 220m long trains.
As for testing, I would have thought Eastleigh-Brockenhurst is most likely with some extensions either end for mileage accumulation. I can’t see Reading Line being used for testing.
swt_passenger
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The 707s wouldn’t help in place of the 442s at all. They aren’t long enough, aren’t fast enough, have insufficient seating, no toilets. Your idea is pointless.
NewSt
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And also, after spending all of that money on a refurbishment, why would they only use them for two years when they've got every facility needed?
swt_passenger
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I think you’re confusing the ITT with the franchise agreement. The ITT didn't specify specific train types, whereas the franchise agreement comes after franchise award and reflects or publishes what has been bid an£ then agreed in order to meet the ITT.
Goldfish62
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The Reading line was used for testing and mileage accumulation for the 458/5s and 707s and Feltham should be ready around the middle of the year.
But yes, initial overnight testing could very well be on where you've suggested.
Goldfish62
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I really don't understand what the issues are with the 720s given that the 710s are managing to operate in service all day without failing all over the place.
Aren't fast enough?! 100 mph on third rail is as fast as you can go, plus on the direct the max line speed is 90. Plus a 707 would out accelerate a 442 with out breaking a sweat.
The rest of the points are the reason why they would never be used...
Mikey C
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The main focus of the Pompey commuter complaints was about 5 abreast trains being used on that route; the 707s are at least only 4 abreast across even if they probably weren't exactly what they were after
5 abreast isn't great, especially on a 2 hour journey.The main focus of the Pompey commuter complaints was about 5 abreast trains being used on that route; the 707s are at least only 4 abreast across even if they probably weren't exactly what they were after
Goldfish62
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They're as fast at the 442s, but of course that's where any advantage ends.
Except length, although they wouldn't have end gangways. Still I refer you and others to this:They're as fast at the 442s, but of course that's where any advantage ends.
I forget to mention that I would take over some shorter distance 450s with 707s
Bombardier throwing all their software resources at 345* and 710. Once the 710 software is sorted (especially the 5 car variant) they basically have a very good base to then that needs minimal tweaks for the 701s and 720s (the 10 cars are 2x 5car half units)
*9cars are a 4car half unit and 5car half unit.
There is a difference between delivery and production, especially if you have a stockpile of already complete units.
(e.g. several months of stock for TfL at Worksop at the equivalent delivery rate and plenty of 701/ 720s scattered around Derby.
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Micheldever doesn’t exist?? Seems a sensible out of the way place to store trains, with little use for anything else.
And there must surely be some space at Eastleigh - there is miles of sidings!
The question is how many will be delivered with pantographs and transformers, if the answer is all of them then initial testing is far easier as they can be thrashed up and down the WCML to identify most mechanical niggles.