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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

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richw

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It’s been remarkable in the past how many tendered services mysteriously become commercially viable when another operator wins the tender.....

It also means subsidy has to be withdrawn when a commercial operation appears on the same route. Go ahead did this on the south coast a few years back when they lost tenders,
 

Goldfish62

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I don’t deny they keep a lot of their PVR, but in terms of network coverage it’s a big loss.

I mean what will they have West of Truro/Falmouth particularly in the winter, it’ll be very sparse in between the Tinner and U4 corridors.

Is all the Truro College work commercial or is that lost as well?
In terms of Penwith they only lose the 5 and 16/A. Total PVR 4. The A1, A17, M6, T1/2 and U4 are lucrative routes.
 

Goldfish62

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Unlikely as they haven’t bought the business,
That wouldn't make any difference. Staff are TUPE'd between operators all the time when routes change hands in London.

However, FK have apparently informed staff that there'll be no job losses.
 

carlberry

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Unlikely as they haven’t bought the business,
TUPE does apply in some situations like this however somebody has stated on the Plymouth Citybus thread: 'I'm told that First have just informed staff that there'll be no redundancies.'
Given that PCB will need loads of new drivers there isn't going to be a shortage of driving jobs, however PCB may have different pay rates.
 

Andyh82

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That wouldn't make any difference. Staff are TUPE'd between operators all the time when routes change hands in London.
It’s different in London though because of course they don’t have a rump of commercial work, in theory the entire workforce could move operator every 5-7 years.
 

richw

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That may explain why they won the contract!

considering the driver hours it’ll involve, this will definitely be contributory. Although on the other hand PCB fuel their buses at liskeard and Bodmin Morrisons whereas first have their own fuel pumps which I imagine makes a bigger difference on fuel!
 

carlberry

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considering the driver hours it’ll involve, this will definitely be contributory. Although on the other hand PCB fuel their buses at liskeard and Bodmin Morrisons whereas first have their own fuel pumps which I imagine makes a bigger difference on fuel!
I suspect they may need to use more than a couple of Morrisons in future!
 

Busaholic

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My gob is well and truly smacked! Didn't see this coming at all.

While pondering the significance of it all, I thought I'd google Mark Howarth, ex M.D. of Western National, then founder and owner of Western Greyhound, to see what he's up to these days. I was interested to see his address quite prominently featured in his linkedin account, High Cross, Cornwall, which is near Newquay so just about as mid Cornwall as you get. He describes himself as an international transport consultant 'seeking interesting opportunities'. I seem to remember, in the dog days of W.G., he arranged for PCB to take over a couple of his routes in east Cornwall, and I think PCB by then was under Go Ahead. Not saying anything, other than I wouldn't think he's shedding too many tears over First's losses.

My personal fear now as far as West Cornwall is concerned is if the decision impinges on First's operations in the period leading up to the new arrangements, including driver availability and morale. I'll also be interested to see how First react to Go Ahead making use of bus stations like Penzance and Truro, assuming they wish to do so.
 

Goldfish62

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I suspect they may need to use more than a couple of Morrisons in future!
Western Greyhound used to use Penzance Morrison's and Travel Cornwall use Penzance Sainsbury's as an outstation. Assuming the current route structure remains GA will need a PVR of seven (one being a taxi!) at Penzance. Wonder if Sainsbury's will allow that number in!!!
 

richw

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Western Greyhound used to use Penzance Morrison's and Travel Cornwall use Penzance Sainsbury's as an outstation. Assuming the current route structure remains GA will need a PVR of seven (one being a taxi!) at Penzance. Wonder if Sainsbury's will allow that number in!!!

Is that pvr including the penwith minibus thing, and Travel Cornwall’s Penzance / penwith routes? All of which are of course tendered routes. What about the age concern that does the hayle / st erth Penzance back road route too?
 

Busaholic

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Western Greyhound used to use Penzance Morrison's and Travel Cornwall use Penzance Sainsbury's as an outstation. Assuming the current route structure remains GA will need a PVR of seven (one being a taxi!) at Penzance. Wonder if Sainsbury's will allow that number in!!!
Could be out of Sainsbury's hands. They've just outsourced their car park to one of the big specialist firms: new notices going up all over the place and even some parking tickets being handed out. Suspect any private arrangement with a bus operator would suddenly become a lot more formal and a lot more expensive! Morrison's might become a better bet, though its continued existence is very much open to doubt.
 

richw

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then founder and owner of Western Greyhound,

Your reference to MH at WG might be a bit out, but his right hand man who is often credited with WG success (who also left a short time before the fall) is now at PCB- his name is evading me but Brian I think is his first name.
 

Busaholic

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Your reference to MH at WG might be a bit out, but his right hand man who is often credited with WG success (who also left a short time before the fall) is now at PCB- his name is evading me but Brian I think is his first name.
The mystery deepens!
 

Goldfish62

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Your reference to MH at WG might be a bit out, but his right hand man who is often credited with WG success (who also left a short time before the fall) is now at PCB- his name is evading me but Brian I think is his first name.
Brian James.
 

carlberry

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My gob is well and truly smacked! Didn't see this coming at all.

While pondering the significance of it all, I thought I'd google Mark Howarth, ex M.D. of Western National, then founder and owner of Western Greyhound, to see what he's up to these days. I was interested to see his address quite prominently featured in his linkedin account, High Cross, Cornwall, which is near Newquay so just about as mid Cornwall as you get. He describes himself as an international transport consultant 'seeking interesting opportunities'. I seem to remember, in the dog days of W.G., he arranged for PCB to take over a couple of his routes in east Cornwall, and I think PCB by then was under Go Ahead. Not saying anything, other than I wouldn't think he's shedding too many tears over First's losses.

My personal fear now as far as West Cornwall is concerned is if the decision impinges on First's operations in the period leading up to the new arrangements, including driver availability and morale. I'll also be interested to see how First react to Go Ahead making use of bus stations like Penzance and Truro, assuming they wish to do so.
I don't believe First own the bus stations so there wont be any issues about using them and the routing would have been stated in the contract anyway. Somebody has said that First have stated there's no effect on jobs so staff morale shouldn't be a major issue for them however this wont be the same for the smaller operators.
 

Busaholic

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I don't believe First own the bus stations so there wont be any issues about using them and the routing would have been stated in the contract anyway. Somebody has said that First have stated there's no effect on jobs so staff morale shouldn't be a major issue for them however this wont be the same for the smaller operators.
Penzance's is owned by Cornwall Council who've appointed First to manage it: Truro may well have the same arrangement. Camborne's, being an integral part of the garage site, is owned by First. St Austell, though owned by First, has FGW given as the operator.
 

DaveHarries

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Somebody has said that First have stated there's no effect on jobs so staff morale shouldn't be a major issue for them however this wont be the same for the smaller operators.
Glad to hear that comment from First but I feel for the smaller operators. I would imagine that PCB did a lot of thinking as to vehicle garaging arrangements before putting the bid in but it will be interesting to see what they end up doing.

Dave
 

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