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Proposed redevelopment of St Pancras/Kings Cross by BR in 1966

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ABB125

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On the St Pancras station website, I found this interesting bit of history:
In 1966 British Railways announced their intention to amalgamate Kings Cross and St Pancras to create ‘a single modern terminus’ with ‘only fragments of the original buildings recognisable’. This led to a public outcry and the poet John Betjeman became the figure head behind the public movement that ensured the long term protection of St. Pancras through its Grade I listing in October 1967.
Does anyone know anything about what was proposed? Are there any plans?

Many thanks
 
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John Webb

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Simon Bradley's 2007 book "St Pancras Station" (ISBN 978 1 86197 951 3 in paperback) says that "What fate the nationalised railway system then had in mind for St Pancras was not made clear....." and goes on to say that various reports were vague as to whether trains would have diverted into King's Cross or into St Pancras, leaving the other one to be demolished or rebuilt in some way.
The Victorian Society, led by its then chairman Nikolaus Pevsner, seems to have been at the forefront of the fight to save both St Pancras and King's Cross stations from redevelopment/demolition. The listing of St Pancras as a Grade I building was on the 2nd of November 1967, according to Bradley's book.
 

EbbwJunction1

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This is what Mr W Pedia has to say on the matter:
"By the 1960s, St Pancras was seen as redundant, and several attempts were made to close it and demolish the hotel (by then known as St Pancras Chambers). These attempts provoked strong and successful opposition, with the campaign led by the later
Poet Laureate, John Betjeman. Jane Hughes Fawcett with the Victorian Society was instrumental in its preservation, and was dubbed "the furious Mrs. Fawcett" by British rail officials. Many of the demonstrators had witnessed the demolition of the nearby Euston Arch a few years previously, and were strongly opposed to the distinctive architecture of St Pancras suffering the same fate. The station became Grade I listed building in November 1967, preventing any drastic modifications. The plans were scrapped by BR in December 1968, realising that it was more cost-effective to modernise the hotel instead, though they disliked owning it.


St Pancras, semi-derelict in 1984
In the 1970s, the train shed roof was in danger of collapse, and the newly appointed Director of Environment
Bernard Kaukas persuaded the company to invest £3m to save it. In 1978, a Private Eye piece said that British Rail really wanted to demolish St Pancras but were opposed by "a lot of long-haired sentimentalists" and "faceless bureaucrats" and praised the office blocks that replaced the Euston Arch."

It doesn't say very much more, but I hope that it helps.
 

CarltonA

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John Betjeman was not always well disposed towards St Pancras station. Prior to the second world war he was an ardent motorist and only started using trains when petrol was hard to obtain due to rationing. He once described St Pancras as a victorian monstrosity but later changed his tune.

I recently observed the demise of the modern office block in front of Euston, something to do with HS2 perhaps?
 

Andy R. A.

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The broad outline plan was that the Bedford Suburban services would be diverted from St. Pancras into Moorgate, much as it happened later with Thameslink. Main Line services were proposed to be diverted from Market Harborough over the now closed line to Northampton, and into Euston, with the lines involved electrified. It was also proposed at one point that the line between Market Harborough and Bedford would close, with Wellingborough and Kettering losing their rail services. For about four years the St. Pancras to Nottingham Newspaper traffic, and the remaining St. Pancras to Glasgow overnight service were diverted to run out of Euston over the Northampton to Market Harborough route, before reverting to St. Pancras around 1970 after the station at St. Pancras had been reprieved. Several floors of the old station Hotel at St. Pancras, which had been in use as offices, were relocated elsewhere during the period when closure seemed certain. Even after it was reprieved there was a lot of vacant office space left empty, and walking about up there could be very spooky at times.
There were several articles published in various Railway Magazines at the time on the proposed plans, I've still got them stashed away somewhere, will have to see if I can dig them out !
 

Busaholic

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John Betjeman was not always well disposed towards St Pancras station. Prior to the second world war he was an ardent motorist and only started using trains when petrol was hard to obtain due to rationing. He once described St Pancras as a victorian monstrosity but later changed his tune.

I recently observed the demise of the modern office block in front of Euston, something to do with HS2 perhaps?
Betjeman had an intense jealousy of, and dislike for, Nikolaus Pevsner for a lot of his life, though I believe they learned to live with each other in later days, which may explain Betjeman's partial change of mind on St Pancras. I worked on Euston Road virtually opposite St Pancras station from 1973 to 1976, and the place was in a disgusting state of disrepair. It and Broad Street station in the City of London were hardly an advert for B.R. and the London Midland region in particular, though I have no doubt their hands were tied by lack of government money.
 

Merle Haggard

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The broad outline plan was that the Bedford Suburban services would be diverted from St. Pancras into Moorgate, much as it happened later with Thameslink. Main Line services were proposed to be diverted from Market Harborough over the now closed line to Northampton, and into Euston, with the lines involved electrified. It was also proposed at one point that the line between Market Harborough and Bedford would close, with Wellingborough and Kettering losing their rail services. For about four years the St. Pancras to Nottingham Newspaper traffic, and the remaining St. Pancras to Glasgow overnight service were diverted to run out of Euston over the Northampton to Market Harborough route, before reverting to St. Pancras around 1970 after the station at St. Pancras had been reprieved. Several floors of the old station Hotel at St. Pancras, which had been in use as offices, were relocated elsewhere during the period when closure seemed certain. Even after it was reprieved there was a lot of vacant office space left empty, and walking about up there could be very spooky at times.
There were several articles published in various Railway Magazines at the time on the proposed plans, I've still got them stashed away somewhere, will have to see if I can dig them out !

A couple of possible corrections, from memory which might have failed...

Only Kettering to Mkt Harbro' was to be closed; the St Pancras - Bedford suburban service was to be extended to Kettering.
The St P - Glasgow sleeper was diverted to Euston to allow the closure of St Pancras sleeper depot; later, the Euston - Npton - MH - Glasgow one was withdrawn altogether, rather than reverted to St Pancras. Its withdrawal was delayed slightly when someone pointed out that BR had to go through the passenger withdrawal process for Northampton - Market Harbro' as it was the only passenger service to use the line. The line had of course previously closed to passengers and been, in effect, re-opened when the sleeper ran that way.
All Toton - Brent Midland freight trains were also diverted to run MH Npton, although a service via the MML to Acton was retained.
Part of the logic at the time was that the fleet of 200 ish AC locos was under-used and diversion to Northampton would increase utilisation.
 

ABB125

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The broad outline plan was that the Bedford Suburban services would be diverted from St. Pancras into Moorgate, much as it happened later with Thameslink. Main Line services were proposed to be diverted from Market Harborough over the now closed line to Northampton, and into Euston, with the lines involved electrified. It was also proposed at one point that the line between Market Harborough and Bedford would close, with Wellingborough and Kettering losing their rail services. For about four years the St. Pancras to Nottingham Newspaper traffic, and the remaining St. Pancras to Glasgow overnight service were diverted to run out of Euston over the Northampton to Market Harborough route, before reverting to St. Pancras around 1970 after the station at St. Pancras had been reprieved. Several floors of the old station Hotel at St. Pancras, which had been in use as offices, were relocated elsewhere during the period when closure seemed certain. Even after it was reprieved there was a lot of vacant office space left empty, and walking about up there could be very spooky at times.
There were several articles published in various Railway Magazines at the time on the proposed plans, I've still got them stashed away somewhere, will have to see if I can dig them out !
Thanks very much, I hope you can find those magazines!
 

John Webb

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Betjeman had an intense jealousy of, and dislike for, Nikolaus Pevsner for a lot of his life, though I believe they learned to live with each other in later days, which may explain Betjeman's partial change of mind on St Pancras. I worked on Euston Road virtually opposite St Pancras station from 1973 to 1976, and the place was in a disgusting state of disrepair. It and Broad Street station in the City of London were hardly an advert for B.R. and the London Midland region in particular, though I have no doubt their hands were tied by lack of government money.
Pevsner was something of a champion of modern building styles, while Betjeman wasn't - this may have been a source of friction?
I commuted through St Pancras from 1969 to 1977 when I started a new job at Boreham Wood and was still living in SE London. St Pancras was in a poor state then - just wish I'd taken some photos. The redevelopment for the Channel Tunnel link has certainly improved matters. I'm also impressed with the King's Cross goods yard redevelopment nearby and the way a number of the old buildings have been reused. Had this development taken place in the 1960s/70s, I suspect all would have been swept away regardless!
 

WesternLancer

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The broad outline plan was that the Bedford Suburban services would be diverted from St. Pancras into Moorgate, much as it happened later with Thameslink. Main Line services were proposed to be diverted from Market Harborough over the now closed line to Northampton, and into Euston, with the lines involved electrified. It was also proposed at one point that the line between Market Harborough and Bedford would close, with Wellingborough and Kettering losing their rail services. For about four years the St. Pancras to Nottingham Newspaper traffic, and the remaining St. Pancras to Glasgow overnight service were diverted to run out of Euston over the Northampton to Market Harborough route, before reverting to St. Pancras around 1970 after the station at St. Pancras had been reprieved. Several floors of the old station Hotel at St. Pancras, which had been in use as offices, were relocated elsewhere during the period when closure seemed certain. Even after it was reprieved there was a lot of vacant office space left empty, and walking about up there could be very spooky at times.
There were several articles published in various Railway Magazines at the time on the proposed plans, I've still got them stashed away somewhere, will have to see if I can dig them out !
very informative - and of course highly plausible for the era concerned.
 

WesternLancer

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Pevsner was something of a champion of modern building styles, while Betjeman wasn't - this may have been a source of friction?
I commuted through St Pancras from 1969 to 1977 when I started a new job at Boreham Wood and was still living in SE London. St Pancras was in a poor state then - just wish I'd taken some photos. The redevelopment for the Channel Tunnel link has certainly improved matters. I'm also impressed with the King's Cross goods yard redevelopment nearby and the way a number of the old buildings have been reused. Had this development taken place in the 1960s/70s, I suspect all would have been swept away regardless!
I suspect Betjeman's book has pics from that early 70s era - I'll have to check my copy - this one (still in print I think with Capital Transport)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Londons-Historic-Railway-Stations-Betjeman/dp/071952573X
 

Andy R. A.

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Continuing to delve into a pile of magazines of the period, mostly odd paragraphs here and there on proposals on what was going to happen in the case of closure of St. Pancras, most of it appears speculation laced with some truths.

Only Kettering to Mkt Harbro' was to be closed; the St Pancras - Bedford suburban service was to be extended to Kettering.
Looks to be right, Glendon South to Market Harborough to close. Manton Junction-Corby-Wellingborough-Bedford retained primarily for existing freight, although there is also a mention of a Leicester semi-fast service from Moorgate (via Melton Mowbray) ?

The St P - Glasgow sleeper was diverted to Euston to allow the closure of St Pancras sleeper depot; later, the Euston - Npton - MH - Glasgow one was withdrawn altogether, rather than reverted to St Pancras. Its withdrawal was delayed slightly when someone pointed out that BR had to go through the passenger withdrawal process for Northampton - Market Harbro' as it was the only passenger service to use the line. The line had of course previously closed to passengers and been, in effect, re-opened when the sleeper ran that way.
Although the Glasgow Sleeper service from St. Pancras was diverted there was still a service operating over the Waverley route from Edinburgh to St. Pancras, which strangely wasn't diverted, possibly because of the projected demise of that service with the end of the Waverley route ?
The small Sleeping Car stores at St. Pancras was located in some offices alongside platform 7, and closed when the Waverley service ended. I can remember the place was cleared out in the early 1970s when several lorries turned up to collect whatever else was left over and took the stuff to Stonebridge Park. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall that there was a fire in this store at some stage, but don't know now if this was before or after the Depot closed ? When the overnight St. Pancras to Glasgow service (1S24 2130 to Glasgow) came back to the Midland it still ran through to Glasgow, but the Sleeping Cars were attached at Nottingham.

All Toton - Brent Midland freight trains were also diverted to run MH Npton, although a service via the MML to Acton was retained.
Although this was indeed proposed it seems that this idea was modified by the later revision of keeping the route via Melton Mowbray and Corby open, with the Toton-Brent workings taking the diversion via Syston-Manton-Corby-Bedford. It is interesting to speculate what might have happened later when the Steel works at Corby closed and the coal traffic started to dry up ?

Although I haven't come across anything which specifically mentions the possible fate of St. Pancras other than 'redeveloped' there are a number of parallels with the fate of other large stations of the period (Glasgow St. Enoch, Manchester Central, and Birmingham Snow Hill).
After closure St. Pancras may have had the mis-fortune to have spent a year or two as a gloomy NCP Car Park, the buildings becoming pray to the un-official vandals, boarded up, and any other windows broken.
Before being a listed structure it may have shared the fate of Broad Street, replaced by another faceless office block ? After being listed it might have been restored much as Manchester Central was, into a Conference/Exhibition Centre, with the added bonus of having a Hotel attached to it, and good transport links, plus a lot of Storage capacity in the basement.

Having worked at St. Pancras (1972-74) I was always glad that it retained its rail services, although a period of neglect followed for a time it still had 'atmosphere'. While the modern day St. Pancras has been saved and has grown in importance I find that I now look at it through the eyes of an old man, the fabric has been saved, but it has somehow lost its soul. (That is just a personal opinion, and I know many don't share that old nostalgia for the past).

Still looking through piles of old magazines to see what else might be lurking there.
 

WesternLancer

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Continuing to delve into a pile of magazines of the period, mostly odd paragraphs here and there on proposals on what was going to happen in the case of closure of St. Pancras, most of it appears speculation laced with some truths.


Looks to be right, Glendon South to Market Harborough to close. Manton Junction-Corby-Wellingborough-Bedford retained primarily for existing freight, although there is also a mention of a Leicester semi-fast service from Moorgate (via Melton Mowbray) ?


Although the Glasgow Sleeper service from St. Pancras was diverted there was still a service operating over the Waverley route from Edinburgh to St. Pancras, which strangely wasn't diverted, possibly because of the projected demise of that service with the end of the Waverley route ?
The small Sleeping Car stores at St. Pancras was located in some offices alongside platform 7, and closed when the Waverley service ended. I can remember the place was cleared out in the early 1970s when several lorries turned up to collect whatever else was left over and took the stuff to Stonebridge Park. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall that there was a fire in this store at some stage, but don't know now if this was before or after the Depot closed ? When the overnight St. Pancras to Glasgow service (1S24 2130 to Glasgow) came back to the Midland it still ran through to Glasgow, but the Sleeping Cars were attached at Nottingham.


Although this was indeed proposed it seems that this idea was modified by the later revision of keeping the route via Melton Mowbray and Corby open, with the Toton-Brent workings taking the diversion via Syston-Manton-Corby-Bedford. It is interesting to speculate what might have happened later when the Steel works at Corby closed and the coal traffic started to dry up ?

Although I haven't come across anything which specifically mentions the possible fate of St. Pancras other than 'redeveloped' there are a number of parallels with the fate of other large stations of the period (Glasgow St. Enoch, Manchester Central, and Birmingham Snow Hill).
After closure St. Pancras may have had the mis-fortune to have spent a year or two as a gloomy NCP Car Park, the buildings becoming pray to the un-official vandals, boarded up, and any other windows broken.
Before being a listed structure it may have shared the fate of Broad Street, replaced by another faceless office block ? After being listed it might have been restored much as Manchester Central was, into a Conference/Exhibition Centre, with the added bonus of having a Hotel attached to it, and good transport links, plus a lot of Storage capacity in the basement.

Having worked at St. Pancras (1972-74) I was always glad that it retained its rail services, although a period of neglect followed for a time it still had 'atmosphere'. While the modern day St. Pancras has been saved and has grown in importance I find that I now look at it through the eyes of an old man, the fabric has been saved, but it has somehow lost its soul. (That is just a personal opinion, and I know many don't share that old nostalgia for the past).

Still looking through piles of old magazines to see what else might be lurking there.
Excellent and informative post Andy - thanks for taking the time to dig through the old mags. Having 1st visited St P in the early 80s, and regularly using it ever since I know what you mean by 'soul'. I've just remembered posting some letters on a TPO carriage post box whilst it was at the platform beside the carriage road at St P, and I'm sure that was as 'recently' as the early 1990s. Seems like another world...
 

GarethW

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Yes it was wonderfully seedy when I used to spot there, often on Friday/Saturday evenings back in the eighties.

Smoky Peaks, parcels, newspapers, clattering DMUs (at least before the BedPan electrification). Interesting characters in the bar, although we often preferred the York Bar at the Cross.

And of course when setting up tripod shots at the end of the platform you could look over the low wall down to York Rd? below and watch all the ahem “street life” going on. o_O
 

vlad

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London St Pancras is now (at least in my opinion) an unattractive modern railway station tacked on incongruously to an amazing and perhaps rather over-the-top Victorian structure.

I don't think it works. I know I'll be shot down in flames for saying this but it would have been better if they'd knocked down the listed bit and built a completely new station for the coming of the Eurostar.
 

WesternLancer

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London St Pancras is now (at least in my opinion) an unattractive modern railway station tacked on incongruously to an amazing and perhaps rather over-the-top Victorian structure.

I don't think it works. I know I'll be shot down in flames for saying this but it would have been better if they'd knocked down the listed bit and built a completely new station for the coming of the Eurostar.
a bit like something modeled on B'ham New St maybe?o_O
 

Helvellyn

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Continuing to delve into a pile of magazines of the period, mostly odd paragraphs here and there on proposals on what was going to happen in the case of closure of St. Pancras, most of it appears speculation laced with some truths.


Looks to be right, Glendon South to Market Harborough to close. Manton Junction-Corby-Wellingborough-Bedford retained primarily for existing freight, although there is also a mention of a Leicester semi-fast service from Moorgate (via Melton Mowbray) ?


Although the Glasgow Sleeper service from St. Pancras was diverted there was still a service operating over the Waverley route from Edinburgh to St. Pancras, which strangely wasn't diverted, possibly because of the projected demise of that service with the end of the Waverley route ?
The small Sleeping Car stores at St. Pancras was located in some offices alongside platform 7, and closed when the Waverley service ended. I can remember the place was cleared out in the early 1970s when several lorries turned up to collect whatever else was left over and took the stuff to Stonebridge Park. Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall that there was a fire in this store at some stage, but don't know now if this was before or after the Depot closed ? When the overnight St. Pancras to Glasgow service (1S24 2130 to Glasgow) came back to the Midland it still ran through to Glasgow, but the Sleeping Cars were attached at Nottingham.


Although this was indeed proposed it seems that this idea was modified by the later revision of keeping the route via Melton Mowbray and Corby open, with the Toton-Brent workings taking the diversion via Syston-Manton-Corby-Bedford. It is interesting to speculate what might have happened later when the Steel works at Corby closed and the coal traffic started to dry up ?

Although I haven't come across anything which specifically mentions the possible fate of St. Pancras other than 'redeveloped' there are a number of parallels with the fate of other large stations of the period (Glasgow St. Enoch, Manchester Central, and Birmingham Snow Hill).
After closure St. Pancras may have had the mis-fortune to have spent a year or two as a gloomy NCP Car Park, the buildings becoming pray to the un-official vandals, boarded up, and any other windows broken.
Before being a listed structure it may have shared the fate of Broad Street, replaced by another faceless office block ? After being listed it might have been restored much as Manchester Central was, into a Conference/Exhibition Centre, with the added bonus of having a Hotel attached to it, and good transport links, plus a lot of Storage capacity in the basement.

Having worked at St. Pancras (1972-74) I was always glad that it retained its rail services, although a period of neglect followed for a time it still had 'atmosphere'. While the modern day St. Pancras has been saved and has grown in importance I find that I now look at it through the eyes of an old man, the fabric has been saved, but it has somehow lost its soul. (That is just a personal opinion, and I know many don't share that old nostalgia for the past).

Still looking through piles of old magazines to see what else might be lurking there.
Any speculation on stock? Just wondering if it might have been a loco hauled service North of Bedford (say every two hours) with Class 127s running up to Wellingborough/Kettering as well.

Going off topic I've wondered when BedPan electrification happened if there was ever any thought given to extending the wires to Kettering? Or if NSE ever considered doing an extension (similar to the way the wires were taken to Peterborough).
 

Bald Rick

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Going off topic I've wondered when BedPan electrification happened if there was ever any thought given to extending the wires to Kettering? Or if NSE ever considered doing an extension (similar to the way the wires were taken to Peterborough).

Absolutely. Bedford was very much Phase 1, with the LM Region expecting to carry on to Leicester and further north. It would have used stock cascaded from the WCML post APT squadron introduction in the mid 80s. AIUI Sectorisation in 1982 triggered a review of major investments, and (in effect) Intercity decided to spend the money on the ECML where the benefits of electrification were rather more significant, with minimal cost of rolling stock (the original ECML authority was for a smallish fleet of Class 89s to haul ex HST trailers). A legacy of the original proposal is that the Leicester resignalling of the mid-late 80s was OLE ready - all signalling immunised and gantry signals in the correct place for wires.

Then later, in early NSE days, there was a proposal to electrify up to Corby, with Thameslink extended, to serve a proposed theme park (wonderworld?), but neither happened, obviously.
 

randyrippley

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London St Pancras is now (at least in my opinion) an unattractive modern railway station tacked on incongruously to an amazing and perhaps rather over-the-top Victorian structure.

I don't think it works. I know I'll be shot down in flames for saying this but it would have been better if they'd knocked down the listed bit and built a completely new station for the coming of the Eurostar.

First time I saw it in the 1970s I thought it was an ugly derelict heap of bricks covered in buddleia bushes.
Now its just an ugly heap of bricks, must be the ugliest Victorian building in London. Looks like a Victorian asylum.
Personally I think Betjeman was a fool, nothing about the building worth preserving though the crushed bricks would have made good hard core
 

John Webb

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The outside of the hotel is, I think, wonderfully 'over the top' and while it may not be to modern tastes, it deserves to be kept. (Possibly as a warning?)
I had the very interesting experience of going round the hotel during its redevelopment to look principally at how modern fire precautions were being squeezed into this Victorian building, but the hangover of it's use as railway offices were still visible, particularly on the upper floors.
 

WesternLancer

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Any speculation on stock? Just wondering if it might have been a loco hauled service North of Bedford (say every two hours) with Class 127s running up to Wellingborough/Kettering as well.

Going off topic I've wondered when BedPan electrification happened if there was ever any thought given to extending the wires to Kettering? Or if NSE ever considered doing an extension (similar to the way the wires were taken to Peterborough).
I'm pretty sure I recall a section in the British Transport Film about the APT (the one presented by Peter Purves) 'Round Trip to Glasgow' from c1982 where a BR manager or senior engineer is interviews about the project and specifically mentions the idea of electrifying the MML to make use of APT trains once they are rolled out on the network. Twisty nature of parts of the MML would have meant this made lots of sense.
 

Andy R. A.

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Any speculation on stock? Just wondering if it might have been a loco hauled service North of Bedford (say every two hours) with Class 127s running up to Wellingborough/Kettering as well.

Looking through the various publications of the time, most, if not all these proposals, were just speculative musings, and nothing had actually been put forward as to what was going to run these revised services. As Electrification to Bedford and future Thameslink services were still some way off it is only conjecture as to what might have happened when the original closure plans for St. Pancras were put forward. I would imagine that any services to Leicester from Moorgate would have probably been Multiple Unit based because of the limited platform space available at Moorgate, so I leave that to your imagination as to what the most suitable stock would have been from what was available at the time ?

As part of the discussions on the diversion of St. Pancras services some even suggested that re-opening and electrification of the former Midland Counties route from Wigston to Rugby might be a better option than using the Market Harborough to Northampton option.
From what I have read so far there were really no clear ideas on how all this was going to go, but it did stir up no end of correspondence in the Railway press of the time with many heated and indignant letters flying back and forth.
 

duffield

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First time I saw it in the 1970s I thought it was an ugly derelict heap of bricks covered in buddleia bushes.
Now its just an ugly heap of bricks, must be the ugliest Victorian building in London. Looks like a Victorian asylum.
Personally I think Betjeman was a fool, nothing about the building worth preserving though the crushed bricks would have made good hard core
It just shows how much tastes vary. Every time I look up at it my jaw drops in awe, I think it's a thing of beauty! Each to their own I guess :E
 

Andy R. A.

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I had the very interesting experience of going round the hotel during its redevelopment to look principally at how modern fire precautions were being squeezed into this Victorian building, but the hangover of it's use as railway offices were still visible, particularly on the upper floors.

I found it strange that the majority occupant of the remaining offices in 1973 were that of Sealink, and BR Shipping services. I once volunteered to take some letters 'upstairs' which had been delivered to us on the ground floor. It was mainly because I had never been in the upper part of the hotel and just wanted to 'nose around' a bit. Almost got lost as I hadn't realised just how big an area it was. Found the right office eventually which overlooked the station concourse. I remarked to the person there what a great view they had, and the reply was that it was okay, mostly for keeping an eye out for their 'going home train'.
My only regret was not ever going into the clock tower. I often wondered who had the lucky job of going up there to put the flag up. The Daily Station Orders would sometimes contain the instruction something along the lines of 'Queen's Birthday, flag to be flown from Sunrise to Sunset'.
Ah, the memories come flooding back !
 

WesternLancer

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I found it strange that the majority occupant of the remaining offices in 1973 were that of Sealink, and BR Shipping services. I once volunteered to take some letters 'upstairs' which had been delivered to us on the ground floor. It was mainly because I had never been in the upper part of the hotel and just wanted to 'nose around' a bit. Almost got lost as I hadn't realised just how big an area it was. Found the right office eventually which overlooked the station concourse. I remarked to the person there what a great view they had, and the reply was that it was okay, mostly for keeping an eye out for their 'going home train'.
My only regret was not ever going into the clock tower. I often wondered who had the lucky job of going up there to put the flag up. The Daily Station Orders would sometimes contain the instruction something along the lines of 'Queen's Birthday, flag to be flown from Sunrise to Sunset'.
Ah, the memories come flooding back !
keep em coming!
 

32475

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My Dad was an architect with BR for many years and the first office he worked in was with London Midland Region at St Pancras in 1963. Two memories of his always struck a chord with me: one was that his drawing board was propped up on some old encaustic decorative tiles which spelled out 'Midland Railway' (he always regrets that he didn't liberate them when he had the opportunity). The other was that during the hot summer, some of the engine crews would take a swim in the water tank at the top of the old hotel building, which served the hydraulicaly operated lifts. If anyone else can verify this particular matter, I'd love to know!
 

WesternLancer

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My Dad was an architect with BR for many years and the first office he worked in was with London Midland Region at St Pancras in 1963. Two memories of his always struck a chord with me: one was that his drawing board was propped up on some old encaustic decorative tiles which spelled out 'Midland Railway' (he always regrets that he didn't liberate them when he had the opportunity). The other was that during the hot summer, some of the engine crews would take a swim in the water tank at the top of the old hotel building, which served the hydraulicaly operated lifts. If anyone else can verify this particular matter, I'd love to know!
Well, st p is mentioned in various sources as being the or one of the 1st places with lifts that were operated hydraulically - so this plausible at least - tho I can't offer any verification on whether anyone could swim in the tanks

see

http://www.roydenstock.com/history.php

Many new ideas were used in the Midland Grand. The building was provided with the two 'Hydraulic Ascending Rooms' or lifts, as we would normally call them.

The first of these was fitted in the main east-west corridor, next to the principle staircase and the guest entrance from the station.

The lift operated on the 'jigger principal' and in its original form was quite dangerous, the hydraulics being so weak as to allow the carriage to 'creep' slowly down on being stopped, thus causing passengers to trip up the threshold when leaving, so much so that the MRC were forced to insist that Armstrong modify both the lifting principle and bring in safety measures.

Gates were fitted to the openings of the lift shafts. The seals used in the Jigger rams were replaced. An accumulator was brought in to increase the pressure.

In the mid-1880s a new concept was used. The Jigger system was replaced with a massive piston sunk into the ground beneath the lift carriage.

This piston was powered from the London Hydraulic Water Company system.

This second form of hydraulic power was so successful that the lift stayed driven that way until the late 1950s when it was replaced with a modern electrically powered carriage.

I have been lucky enough to meet ex LMS and British Rail employees that had travelled in the water-driven lift, and their general opinion was that it was very smooth and quiet, unless the driver didn't like you- he was able to cause sudden stops and starts!

The second hydraulic ascending room was installed next to the grand staircase. At first, the MRC decided that this lift would only travel to the fourth floor, but a new gable was built to accommodate it to the fifth floor, before the lift was installed.
 
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