West Lothian buses

overthewater said:

Every thing seems to have been kept in place until 1980. Isn't that when Scotmap was done?47 was kept until November 1999 changes.

I believe cost cutting but depot did make a pretty penny.

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Scotmap was done 1982.

I know it was around then

TheGrandWazoo said:

Visiting Edinburgh in the mid 1980s, I remember the joint services with Midland vehicles; think they were mainly drawn from Larbert and Grangemouth depots but doubtless from Stirling/Bannockburn. Apart from that, there was the 100/101 service to Dumfries worked with Western. Of course, there were plenty of Fife services but can't recall any joint ops.

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There were various joint routes with Fife, the 55/56 to Dunfermline, 57 to Leven. Also the 501/2 with United to Newcastle and The 95 twith Ribble to Carlisle. The United and Ribble buses were often used on the 55 to Balerno during their layovers in Edinburgh

Baileygirl said:

There were various joint routes with Fife, the 55/56 to Dunfermline, 57 to Leven. Also the 501/2 with United to Newcastle and The 95 twith Ribble to Carlisle. The United and Ribble buses were often used on the 55 to Balerno during their layovers in Edinburgh

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This would’ve been 1984-7 so United had stopped running to Edinburgh by then. Assume the same on Ribble - definitely don’t recall seeing them.

I didn’t recall Eastern/Fife joint workings but guessed they probably did exist!

TheGrandWazoo said:

This would’ve been 1984-7 so United had stopped running to Edinburgh by then. Assume the same on Ribble - definitely don’t recall seeing them.

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All the joint services stopped by 1986 at deregulation. There was even a joint service between St. Andrew Square bus station and Ricarton numbered 25 with LRT and Eastern Scottish before regulation. It was strange seeing LRT buses in in the bus station.

In 1949 Alexander's service 38 was between Alloa and Dollar. The Edinburgh-Stirling service has no route number shown - in the combined timetable book for that summer, it is shown as an SMT route, although the timetable suggests that there were workings from the Stirlingshire end of the route, so probably joint unless SMT outstationed buses in Alexander depots.
Midland Bluebird Ltd is the original W Alexander & Sons Ltd, renamed several times since incorporated in 1932.
First Scotland East Ltd only dates back to 1985, being the renamed Lowland Scottish. Intriguingly,
First retains Eastern Scottish Omnibuses Ltd as a non-trading company, this started life in 1949 as SMT.

Baileygirl said:

All the joint services stopped by 1986 at deregulation. There was even a joint service between St. Andrew Square bus station and Ricarton numbered 25 with LRT and Eastern Scottish before regulation. It was strange seeing LRT buses in in the bus station.

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Wasn't that the 61? Heriot-Watt had a long battle to get a decent bus service. Because it was outside Edinburgh's old boundaries, it had the SMT 53A - 8 a day in term, 2 in vacation, none at weekends.

Baileygirl said:

All the joint services stopped by 1986 at deregulation. There was even a joint service between St. Andrew Square bus station and Ricarton numbered 25 with LRT and Eastern Scottish before regulation. It was strange seeing LRT buses in in the bus station.

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Not true, Both the following were jointly operated until 2004:

No14 Dunfermline - Alloa - Stirling - Kirkintilloch - Glasgow
No23 St Andrews - Kinross - Stirling

Man of Kent said:

First Scotland East Ltd only dates back to 1985, being the renamed Lowland Scottish. Intriguingly,

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I dont believe the current First Scotland East Ltd disk is the same Lowland Scottish disk?

Lowland Scottish was split from Eastern Scottish and was the Garages at Dunbar Haddington and North Berwick. Bought by GRT then First. First Scotland East was originally called First Edinburgh for garages at Westfield, Dalkeith Musselburgh and Livingston. SMT bought it from Eastern Scottish then passed to GRT then First

Baileygirl said:

All the joint services stopped by 1986 at deregulation. There was even a joint service between St. Andrew Square bus station and Ricarton numbered 25 with LRT and Eastern Scottish before regulation. It was strange seeing LRT buses in in the bus station.

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Take it you mean the Fife joints. As I say, I know that United stopped before then, not venturing past Coldstream and the northern edge of Berwick.

overthewater said:

I dont believe the current First Scotland East Ltd disk is the same Lowland Scottish disk?

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It's all a bit convoluted. Obviously, Lowland was formed out of Eastern's Border ops whilst Linlithgow passed to Midland. At the same time, Baillieston closed and ops passed to Midland whilst Clarkston passed to Central.

When Eastern (renamed SMT) was broken up, I thought the Borders and Mid/East Lothian passed to Lowland, and Livingston passed to the old Midland operation. Take it that isn't the case?

TheGrandWazoo said:

When Eastern (renamed SMT) was broken up, I thought the Borders and Mid/East Lothian passed to Lowland, and Livingston passed to the old Midland operation. Take it that isn't the case?

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The current First Scotland East Ltd started out as Lowland Scottish Omnibuses Ltd. It is all rather convoluted!

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC091923

First Scotland Edinburgh Ltd was formed out of the Lowland and SMT operations of GRT and later renamed First Scotland East Ltd. First Edinburgh was also the general name of the combined group with Midland Bluebird. I remember a comment in the press that Edinburgh buses would go to Glasgow.

From 1999 to 2012, all the trading activity was in First Scotland East Limited, with Midland Bluebird Limited being dormant.

Baileygirl said:

The United and Ribble buses were often used on the 55 to Balerno during their layovers in Edinburgh

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I think I remember LRT running a number 55 between Balerno and Tesco at Dumbryden (probably under contract to Tesco), but otherwise I thought it was just the numbers 52, 53 and latterly 53A that went up the Lanark Road in the 1970s and 1980s? Could be wrong though - would be interesting to see the old timetable book.

oldman said:

Wasn't that the 61? Heriot-Watt had a long battle to get a decent bus service. Because it was outside Edinburgh's old boundaries, it had the SMT 53A - 8 a day in term, 2 in vacation, none at weekends.

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Only the 61 being a joint service is my recollection, too. I think the 25 or 22 were after deregulation. The 61 fare table brought home the disparity between Eastern Scottish and LRT (or rural versus urban charges), with fares jumping 50% if travelling across the former city boundary. You needed to carry exact change too (and for these fares that meant a lot of heavy coins, in the days before small 5p, 10p p& 50p pieces and 20p coins) or keep your fingers crossed that an Eastern Scottish bus would arrive so you could hand over a pound note.

Vosa number doesn't match up, However I see what people highlighting.

PM0000003 was the Midland Scottish Omnibuses Ltd licence from 1985 to 1992, it was renamed Midland Bluebird Ltd from 1992 to current, with the trading names Midland Scottish, Midland Bluebird, First Edinburgh, First Borders, First Midland Bluebird, First Bluebird used.

PM0000007 was the Eastern Scottish Omnibuses Ltd licence from 1985 to 2004 when it was surrendered, with the trading names Eastern Scottish, SMT, First SMT, First Edinburgh used.

PM0000923 was the Lowland Scottish Omnibuses Ltd licence from 1985 to 1990 when it was renamed Lowland Omnibuses Ltd from 1990 to 1999 when it was renamed First Edinburgh Ltd from 1999 to 2008 when it was renamed First Scotland East Ltd from 2008 to current, with the trading names Lowland Scottish, Lowland, First Lowland, First Edinburgh, First East Lothian, First West Lothian used.

There may have been other trading names used but that's what I remember off the top of my head.

Realistically they could just use the one license, but what's stopping them? Are the going rates at Livingston different from the Midland Bluebird depots, other than cash handling of course.

Observer said:

Realistically they could just use the one license, but what's stopping them? Are the going rates at Livingston different from the Midland Bluebird depots, other than cash handling of course.

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I thought they would have done this when the East Lothian operation ended and the Borders operation was sold, after all both licenses are headed from Larbet depot.

On the topic of the changes have we managed to establish if First are pulling out of Kirknewton? Somewhat surprised by this, they seem to do quite well there with the 23 probably being busier than the X23?

There has been NO changes submitted for it to be axed.

overthewater said:

There has been NO changes submitted for it to be axed.

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I noticed that but was wondering whether it is being considered under the X22/X23 amendment? The website and Traveline Scotland both say that the 23 timetable expires on 26th January while the new X22/X23 timetable starts on 27th January. There seems to be no replacement timetable for the 23.

If you do a planned journey in Traveline Scotland now to Kirknewton using only First it makes you walk up from top of East Calder now.

If First does pull out its would be mighty strange.

overthewater said:

If First does pull out its would be mighty strange.

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No danger of that happening. First have the better network in West Lothian, and more importantly have better ticket offerings. They won't be pulling out any time soon.

DunsBus said:

No danger of that happening. First have the better network in West Lothian, and more importantly have better ticket offerings. They won't be pulling out any time soon.

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I think the comment related to pulling out from Kirknewton rather than throwing in the towel altogether.

Siemens Trains said:

I think the comment related to pulling out from Kirknewton rather than throwing in the towel altogether.

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We have a winner however looking what we have right now, its starting to look like first will pull out of Kirknewton. All the X23/24 are going up Langton Road. Surly First are not that draft to create a gap in its network during a bus war???

Add on the fact its cutting back in Craighills, means first fire wall is starting to crack.

Linlithgow depot closed because it lost all its tendered work. Presumably they got an offer they couldn't refuse for the site as well, which now has retirement flats on it.

overthewater said:

Add on the fact its cutting back in Craighills, means first fire wall is starting to crack.

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First is only pulling one bus out of Craigshill per hour X23. They only put it on after pressure and it is used very little.

overthewater said:

its starting to look like first will pull out of Kirknewton.

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23 is only ever busy to/from Edinburgh in peaks. Passengers to Sighthill will need to pay £3.70 single with LCB compared to £2.60 with First.

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...e-updates/planned-changes/first-scotland-east

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First Scotland East - Timetable Changes - From 27th Jan 2020
8 Jan 2020West Lothian

Following weeks of consultation on our network change proposals, and having taken on board all of the feedback, comments and correspondence received, we can now confirm that following changes will come into effect as of Monday, January 27th 2020 across our Scotland East network. We have based these changes on feedback from customers and key local stakeholders coupled with the thoughts of our local driving team and an extensive analysis of passenger journeys and punctuality of our services.

Click here for a list of all forthcoming Service timetables, including Saturday and Sunday timetables.

A summary of the changes are as follows:

Service 21

Click here for Service 21 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service 21: Whitburn – Armadale – Bathgate – Blackburn – Kirkton Campus – Livingston

• Revised timetable with no change to frequency

Service 22 – X22

Click here for Service X22 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service X22: Shotts – Harthill – Whitburn – Blackburn – Livingston – Dedridge East – Mid Calder – East Calder – Hermiston Park & Ride – Edinburgh

Service X22 will replace Service 22. It will allow for improved frequency in Shotts, new links to Hermiston Park & Ride and Edinburgh. Service X22 will combine with Service X23 to provide buses every 15 minutes between Livingston and Edinburgh via Mid Calder and East Calder.

• Service X22 will operate every 30 minutes during the day and hourly in the evening
• Extended from Harthill to Shotts
• Extended from Livingston to Edinburgh via Dedridge East, Mid Calder (Calder Park Road), East Calder (Langton Road), Wilkieston and Hermiston Park & Ride
• Howden East and St John’s Hospital grounds no longer served. Passengers now advised to use Services 26 and 26A/
• Rerouted via Howden South Road instead of Alderstone Road

Services 23, X23

Click here for Service X23 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service X23: Deans – Eliburn – Livingston – Dedridge East – Mid Calder – East Calder – Hermiston Park & Ride – Edinburgh

Service X22 will replace Service 22. It will allow for improved frequency in Shotts, new links to Hermiston Park & Ride and Edinburgh. Service X22 will combine with Service X23 to provide buses every 15 minutes between Livingston and Edinburgh via Mid Calder and East Calder. Service X23 will provide new early morning journeys into Edinburgh.

• Service X23 will operate every 30 minutes during the day, Monday to Saturday
• Hermiston Park & Ride will now be served
• Between Livingston Centre and Dalmahoy all journeys will operate via Dedridge East, Mid Calder (Calder Park Road), East Calder (Langton Road) and Wilkieston
• Howden East and St John’s Hospital grounds no longer served. Passengers now advised to use Services 26 and 26A/
• Rerouted via Howden South Road instead of Alderstone Road

Services 24, 25 – X24, X25

Click here for Service X24 / X25 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus services X24, X25: Blackridge – Armadale – Bathgate – Deans – Livingston – Uphall – Broxburn – Edinburgh

• Services X24 / X25 will provide new early morning journeys to Edinburgh.
• Revised timetable with no change to frequency

Services 26, 26A

Click here for Services 26 / 26A timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus services 26, 26A: Click here for Service 27 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service 27: Ladywell – St John’s Hospital – Craigshill – The Centre – Dedridge – Livingston South Station

• Service 27 will bring a new service for Ladywell West
• Revised timetable

Service 600

Click here for Service 600 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service 600: Whitburn – Blackburn – Kirkton Campus – Livingston – Uphall – Broxburn – Winchburgh – Kirkliston – Edinburgh Airport

• Revised timetable with no change to frequency

Service 701 – X22

Click here for Service X22 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service 701: Shotts – Harthill – Whitburn

• Service 701 will be replaced by service X22, bringing an improved frequency and providing links to Livingston and Edinburgh

Services N23, N25

Bus services N23, N25: Edinburgh – West Lothian Night Services

• Due to low usage these services will no longer operate

Service 38 – X38

Click here for Service X38 timetable (Mon to Fri)

Bus service X38: Stirling – Falkirk – Linlithgow – Winchburgh – Kirkliston – Edinburgh

Service 38 will become Service X38.

• Revised timetable with no change to frequency

Click here for a list of all forthcoming Service timetables, including Saturday and Sunday timetables.




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So some people on here were absolutely right. First are pulling out of Kirknewton. How odd, however is this a devious plan by First? This will end up in the papers and someone will highlight how there will be worse off commuting in Edinburgh with LCB as you have to pay higher fare for less days. If someone is going to Sighthill and gettnig £2.60 then again that will cause a stink.