Girl upset at being forced to stay on until next stop on Limited Stop service

AnkleBoots · 7 Jan 2020

Today I witnessed a girl (perhaps 12) not being allowed to alight a bus at her habitual stop, because she was on a Limited stop service. There is no signage at bus stops or on the bus showing where it stops, although it does state Limited Stop on the front.

Who is to blame?

- The driver for being awkward
- The bus company for lack of communication
- The girl for not knowing the timetable

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite · 7 Jan 2020

Was she put at considerable risk by not being let off at her habitual stop, e.g. it was dark, she was being met there or the next stop was in a dodgy area?

If not, I think all that happened was that she learnt a valuable life lesson by way of a bit of a walk.

lachlan · 7 Jan 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Was she put at considerable risk by not being let off at her habitual stop, e.g. it was dark, she was being met there or the next stop was in a dodgy area?

If not, I think all that happened was that she learnt a valuable life lesson by way of a bit of a walk.

Agreed on both your points.

The timetable absolutely should mention which services are limited stop, the digital display on the bus stop should display limited stop, if there is a display. Bus stops that are skipped should have a notice as well informing users that express services don't stop there.

AnkleBoots · 7 Jan 2020

It was dark and a quiet area, although not known to be dangerous. I guess she was a half a mile out of her way.

Ianno87 · 7 Jan 2020

lachlan said:
Agreed on both your points.

The timetable absolutely should mention which services are limited stop, the digital display on the bus stop should display limited stop, if there is a display. Bus stops that are skipped should have a notice as well informing users that express services don't stop there.

Not sure that's very much use when you're on the bus wanting to get off.

Limited stop buses aren't a familar concept to everybody. Many areas of the country don't have any.

Robertj21a · 7 Jan 2020

How could the driver be considered 'awkward'?

lachlan · 7 Jan 2020

Ianno87 said:
Not sure that's very much use when you're on the bus wanting to get off.

Limited stop buses aren't a familar concept to everybody. Many areas of the country don't have any.

I was thinking marking the stops themselves so she would have noticed her stop wasn't on the express route when going to catch the bus out. Assuming she made a return journey.

AnkleBoots · 7 Jan 2020

Robertj21a said:
How could the driver be considered 'awkward'?

He refused to stop at the bus stop she wanted.

Robertj21a · 7 Jan 2020

AnkleBoots said:
He refused to stop at the bus stop she wanted.

That's not awkward, that's carrying out his duties correctly.

carlberry · 7 Jan 2020

Robertj21a said:
That's not awkward, that's carrying out his duties correctly.

I suspect that wont be what his employer says if the incident ends up in the local paper. 'Bus driver refuses to let 12 year old girl off bus and makes her walk 1/2 mile', most local paper could keep that going for days!

Robertj21a · 7 Jan 2020

carlberry said:
I suspect that wont be what his employer says if the incident ends up in the local paper. 'Bus driver refuses to let 12 year old girl off bus and makes her walk 1/2 mile', most local paper could keep that going for days!

Oh yes, I quite agree - but it doesn't (to my mind) say that he was 'awkward'. No doubt the media will simply refer to it as 'Uncaring bus driver......' or 'Jobsworth bus driver.....'

TheWalrus · 7 Jan 2020

Robertj21a said:
That's not awkward, that's carrying out his duties correctly.

Yes but as a driver myself, one thing the driver could have done is ask all the passengers where they’re going and advise the ones wanting stops he doesn’t call at that he doesn’t stop there and which alternative service they need. However without knowing the circumstances, he may have been late and not had time, he could have asked and she ignored him, without being there it’s difficult to say.

AnkleBoots · 7 Jan 2020

Drivers could also help to avoid this by asking children and seniors their destination upon boarding

Andyh82 · 7 Jan 2020

Basically she got on the wrong bus, no different than if it was the wrong bus that went a different way. Both would result in either having to walk back, or catch another bus back.

But yes, I can see a Daily Mail/Express story incoming complete with mum and daughter with sad faces stood at the bus stop and general outrage.

PeterC · 7 Jan 2020

lachlan said:
I was thinking marking the stops themselves so she would have noticed her stop wasn't on the express route when going to catch the bus out. Assuming she made a return journey.

Plenty of adults are incapable of associating the list of route numbers on the stop with the number on the front of the bus. Just catch the 400 in Oxford. In half a dozen journeys you are bound to see at least one person trying to hail the bus at a stop that is omitted. Stops in Oxford are mostly very clearly marked with the route numbers.

PeterC · 7 Jan 2020

AnkleBoots said:
Drivers could also help to avoid this by asking children and seniors their destination upon boarding

Of course they gave me a lobotomy along the the ENCTS (concessionary travel) card!

I would be pretty damn quick to complain if a driver was that patronising.

Andyh82 · 7 Jan 2020

AnkleBoots said:
Drivers could also help to avoid this by asking children and seniors their destination upon boarding

On a well established service?

And if they did this they’d presumably answer something like ‘Anytown Road’

Then it would need clarifying if they are going to Anytown Road Red Lion, or Anytown Road Post Office, or Anytown Road McDonalds or....

By which time the bus is ten minutes behind.

AB93 · 7 Jan 2020

AnkleBoots said:
He refused to stop at the bus stop she wanted.

Sounds like it would've taken them mere seconds to pull in and stop.

As a driver, you can 9 times out of 10 tell if someone's trying it on or if they've made a genuine mistake.
If they've made a genuine mistake, why be awkward and inconvenience them for no benefit to anyone?

This is the sort of thing that will put them off using the bus the next time. Where does the revenue go then? Not the company, but Uber...

Andyh82 · 7 Jan 2020

AB93 said:
Sounds like it would've taken them mere seconds to pull in and stop.

As a driver, you can 9 times out of 10 tell if someone's trying it on or if they've made a genuine mistake.
If they've made a genuine mistake, why be awkward and inconvenience them for no benefit to anyone?

This is the sort of thing that will put them off using the bus the next time. Where does the revenue go then? Not the company, but Uber...

How would you know that just by the ring of a bell?

By the time the passenger had confirmed they aren’t trying it on, they’d be half way to the next actual stop.

Didn’t the X92 get axed in Manchester due to over entitled passengers demanding they were let off because they thought they were actually on a 192?

Busaholic · 7 Jan 2020

AB93 said:
Sounds like it would've taken them mere seconds to pull in and stop.

As a driver, you can 9 times out of 10 tell if someone's trying it on or if they've made a genuine mistake.
If they've made a genuine mistake, why be awkward and inconvenience them for no benefit to anyone?

This is the sort of thing that will put them off using the bus the next time. Where does the revenue go then? Not the company, but Uber...

I was hoping someone with a bit of commonsense and compassion would say that: if you're a bus driver, so much better to come from you.

175mph · 7 Jan 2020

PeterC said:
Of course they gave me a lobotomy along the the ENCTS card!

I would be pretty damn quick to complain if a driver was that patronising.

With one local bus company where I live, Hornsbys, it's company policy for their drivers to be 'patronising' to ENCTS card holders, as I mentioned here.

AnkleBoots · 8 Jan 2020

PeterC said:
Of course they gave me a lobotomy along the the ENCTS card!

I would be pretty damn quick to complain if a driver was that patronising.

Sorry, my suggestion was mainly about working-age adults already needing to state their destination to get their ticket. Children and seniors don't on this particular route.

AB93 · 8 Jan 2020

Andyh82 said:
How would you know that just by the ring of a bell?

By the time the passenger had confirmed they aren’t trying it on, they’d be half way to the next actual stop.

Didn’t the X92 get axed in Manchester due to over entitled passengers demanding they were let off because they thought they were actually on a 192?

If they come to the front and ask, "don't you stop there" or "sorry, I wanted that stop" etc.
You say 'you'd be half way to the next actual stop' but that somewhat depends on how 'limited stop' it is! Unless you're on a fast road, generally it's no trouble at all to pull in. (Even sometimes not at a stop, like I would do if I've made a mistake and accidentally missed someone's stop.)

I've even on occasion pulled in on a limited stop service to pick someone up from a stop it doesn't serve, if I've seen another bus shut the doors in their face, etc. It's 20 seconds out of my day but does wonders to put a bit of faith back in the service.

Yes, the Manchester X92 (pm) journeys were indeed withdrawn due to disruptive passengers on it, but one of the most intensive bus routes in the country (and probably picking up more than its fare share of troublemakers) is a different kettle of fish to pulling in at a bus stop on your average bus route to let a 12 year old girl off in the dark where she wanted to be.

Don't get me wrong, you can't always help people out if they've made a mistake as sometimes it's just too busy, or otherwise impractical, but if you can help to not ruin someone's journey, then it goes a long way.

Non Multi · 8 Jan 2020

Considering what can happen to young females travelling alone (just look back at the Levi Bellfield murders), I think the wrong decision was made here. Sticking rigorously to company policy is fine until something awful happens.

richw · 8 Jan 2020

If it’s a registered limited stop service it’s a breach of the registration to not abide by that. Doing so regularly could see you in front of the traffic commissioner for non compliance. Unlikely but a possibility.

peterblue · 8 Jan 2020

Have a bit of common sense. If it's a 12 year old girl travelling solo, making a genuine mistake, they should be let off the bus. Leaving a vulnerable person alone in the dark isn't a good idea just to uphold 'company policy'.

cnjb8 · 8 Jan 2020

richw said:
If it’s a registered limited stop service it’s a breach of the registration to not abide by that. Doing so regularly could see you in front of the traffic commissioner for non compliance. Unlikely but a possibility.

Well, maybe the driver could have dropped her off once and told her not to do it again.

richw · 8 Jan 2020

cnjb8 said:
Well, maybe the driver could have dropped her off once and told her not to do it again.

and then a different driver does the same tomorrow, and another driver the day after and so on. There’s then a repeated breach of the registration, potentially being observed by authorities.

cnjb8 · 8 Jan 2020

richw said:
and then a different driver does the same tomorrow, and another driver the day after and so on. There’s then a repeated breach of the registration, potentially being observed by authorities.

That's true

CN04NRJ · 8 Jan 2020

richw said:
and then a different driver does the same tomorrow, and another driver the day after and so on. There’s then a repeated breach of the registration, potentially being observed by authorities.

If you do it for one then you have to do it for everybody - people on the bus would then expect the driver to stop at every other stop more convenient for them then it stops being a limited stop service.

If, for instance, the female tripped and fell off the vehicle injuring herself it would then be 'incompetent bus driver stops at unregistered stop causing woman to injure herself' - the company would presumably be at fault for servicing an unregistered stop and the driver would be sanctioned.

Unfortunately us drivers often have little discretion and it's better to be seen as 'heartless' and uncaring if it means following policy/stopping places to the letter just incase something does go wrong.

Of course that doesn't go to say I've never applied common sense in my job and stopped elsewhere on a limited stop service if, for example, an elderly lady has boarded the wrong bus by mistake and it would mean a long walk for her if I continued to the next stop for that service.

Girl upset at being forced to stay on until next stop on Limited Stop service

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