Most Hated Bus

LancasterRed · 7 Jan 2020

Coastal Coaches' Solos (SRs?) not because they're bad, but between Cottam and Poulton you'll have ended up in the aisle about 5 times. Horribly unsuitable for the rural areas.

Literally anything Preston Bus throw out in reserve or use for their school buses. Not so much the types of bus but you know you're going to end up with either banged knees or travel sickness by the end when one turns up.

Add the Optare Solo (original) to that list. Awful for metro services, especially if you're left standing

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richw · 7 Jan 2020

ChilternTurbo said:
Plaxton President on both Volvo and Dennis chassis in a big way but I always thought they seemed quite under powered

we’ve got quite a few 2001-2003 Dennis presidents where I work. Some of them are horrendously slow, walking pace on hills and not much better on flat. Some go like **** off a shovel and absolutely fly and sit no problem at speed limits on fast roads.

delt1c · 7 Jan 2020

MBA's crush loaded on Red Arrow services in the 70's . Squeezed in like sardines, rattles coming from everywhere , especially the turnstiles and cash machines. luckily journeys were short

JumpinTrainz · 7 Jan 2020

B7Ls without a doubt. They literally rattled and shuddered the full way. Not to mention the overly loud toilet box engine. The Glasgow examples always smelled and the early 00s seats were horrendous.

I also hated the T plate tridents which came to Glasgow from London which were already knackered and the seats smelled so bad. There also wasn’t a lot of seating upstairs because of the middle stair case so they were crammed on busy routes.

Observer · 7 Jan 2020

JumpinTrainz said:
I also hated the T plate tridents which came to Glasgow from London which were already knackered and the seats smelled so bad. There also wasn’t a lot of seating upstairs because of the middle stair case so they were crammed on busy routes.

Horrible buckets those were, so were the W-plate ALX200s, rattly cold old things.

And to make it worse they had lives after Glasgow as well to get rid of step entry deckers, when the right move would have been to turn them into coke cans!

CM · 7 Jan 2020

Observer said:
Horrible buckets those were, so were the W-plate ALX200s, rattly cold old things.

And to make it worse they had lives after Glasgow as well to get rid of step entry deckers, when the right move would have been to turn them into coke cans!

The W reg ALX400s were abysmal things and you could quite clearly tell that the only work they had done to them was the fitment of LED screens and a repaint. The interiors were filthy and some of them also had half-arsed single door conversions carried out which didn't do them any favours either.

ChilternTurbo · 7 Jan 2020

I always found the first generation of low floor double deckers are poor replacement for the likes of Metrobuses, Titans and Olympians. I remember the Arriva London DAF DB250s had a really claustrophobic lower deck seating layout where you sat in a long row facing your fellow passengers. This was made even worse with some variants having high-backed seats which meant views outside were severely restricted.

Personally the Wright Eclipse Gemini design was the first low floor double decker that I liked. Actually, I think it's turned into a bit of a design classic that still looks fresh and modern.

mlambeuk · 7 Jan 2020

The transit van conversions that appeared in the mid 80s during de-regulation.

JumpinTrainz · 7 Jan 2020

Colin M said:
The W reg ALX400s were abysmal things and you could quite clearly tell that the only work they had done to them was the fitment of LED screens and a repaint. The interiors were filthy and some of them also had half-arsed single door conversions carried out which didn't do them any favours either.

None of the ex-London tridents which came to Glasgow were a good idea. Although in saying that I found the W reg ALX400s semi decent compared to the T and V plate ones. At least the ALX400s had more seating upstairs and the seat covers were fairly fresh looking. The 51/02 plate buses were not too bad either but really they were all about used and abused in London it was silly for any of them to come to Glasgow and be hammered up here too.

Mikey C · 7 Jan 2020

The very first low floor double deckers in London were flawed, whether it was the weird rear seating on the DAFS or more importantly the central staircase which TfL (or rather their predecessor) originally insisted on, which reduced the number of low floor seats to ridiculously low numbers

By 2001 things had been sorted (whether with a President, ALX400 or other bodywork), though while the Tridents could be a bit jerky, the Volvo B7TLs soon became terrible - great when new but quickly making an awful roar from the cooling fan...

The Wright Eclipse Gemini then took things forward on the bodywork front, though sadly most of those were on the roaring B7TL! The best Gemini to me was the Gemini 2 on the B9TL chassis.

TRAX · 8 Jan 2020

Wright StreetLite. It’d be quicker to list the positive points of this thing than to list the negatives. How on earth can a manufacturer churn these out and be satisfied with them ?

Statto · 8 Jan 2020

Mikey C said:
The very first low floor double deckers in London were flawed, whether it was the weird rear seating on the DAFS or more importantly the central staircase which TfL (or rather their predecessor) originally insisted on, which reduced the number of low floor seats to ridiculously low numbers

By 2001 things had been sorted (whether with a President, ALX400 or other bodywork), though while the Tridents could be a bit jerky, the Volvo B7TLs soon became terrible - great when new but quickly making an awful roar from the cooling fan...

The Wright Eclipse Gemini then took things forward on the bodywork front, though sadly most of those were on the roaring B7TL! The best Gemini to me was the Gemini 2 on the B9TL chassis.

The early DAF ALX400s Arriva had were awful, underpowered limited seating downstairs, some made there way north to Birkenhead before the hybrid deckers came & they weren't popular.

Those fans make an awful racket, didn't TFL bar new Volvos for a whilst because of the loud fans, some E400s suffer from loud fans too.

TheGrandWazoo · 8 Jan 2020

LancasterRed said:
Coastal Coaches' Solos (SRs?) not because they're bad, but between Cottam and Poulton you'll have ended up in the aisle about 5 times. Horribly unsuitable for the rural areas.

Literally anything Preston Bus throw out in reserve or use for their school buses. Not so much the types of bus but you know you're going to end up with either banged knees or travel sickness by the end when one turns up.

Add the Optare Solo (original) to that list. Awful for metro services, especially if you're left standing

The Optare Solo as the worst bus.....?? And if capacity is insufficient, that's not really a reflection on the bus.

For real junk, you really can't look much further than the Willowbrook 003 bodied Leyland Leopard as supplied to a large number of NBC subsidiaries. The design was essentially a poor Duple copy, the comfort for a coach type vehicle (DP) was abysmal. Issues with build quality were immediately apparent. Most were withdrawn and scrapped (often rebodied) after about 10 years. https://www.flickr.com/photos/60694...-GFV6Wh-SXyffN-2gr6hru-266x3Yy-2go13kX-e3EHgN

Eyersey468 · 11 Jan 2020

ChilternTurbo said:
I never like the Plaxton President. I grew up in North London and the staple double decker back then was the Metrobus which I loved and thought they sounded great, especially when driven hard! Metroline were my local bus company and took to the Plaxton President on both Volvo and Dennis chassis in a big way but I always thought they seemed quite under powered and made a horrible racket like a faulty hoover. I wasn't sad to read that the last of these have just been withdrawn from London service. Good riddance.

The Volvo B7TL isn't a bad bus in my experience, our Presidents were good workhorses. Agree about the Tridents, they were underpowered and like a beached whale to drive

richw · 11 Jan 2020

ChilternTurbo said:
Personally the Wright Eclipse Gemini design was the first low floor double decker that I liked. Actually, I think it's turned into a bit of a design classic that still looks fresh and modern.

The 2007 Geminis we have here feel a good quality product, and well built, are nice to drive albeit a little sluggish in B7 form.

SouthEastBuses · 12 Jan 2020

The bus I don't like the most if the old Optare Solo. It looks so ugly outside!

route101 · 12 Jan 2020

JumpinTrainz said:
B7Ls without a doubt. They literally rattled and shuddered the full way. Not to mention the overly loud toilet box engine. The Glasgow examples always smelled and the early 00s seats were horrendous.

I also hated the T plate tridents which came to Glasgow from London which were already knackered and the seats smelled so bad. There also wasn’t a lot of seating upstairs because of the middle stair case so they were crammed on busy routes.

Remember them t regs , had very few seats downstairs

L401CJF · 13 Jan 2020

I've driven a good variety of buses over the years, the worst I've had to drive are the Wright Streetlite which are slow, jerky, rattly and uncomfortable. Not to mention unreliable and racing through parts buses twice their age still shouldn't have replacing. Also Volvo B7RLE Eclipses (ex Leeds YK53s to Merseyside) . Slow, jerky and cold.

Contrary to a lot of people I've never liked Volvo B10B/M/BLEs to drive, I find the steering too light. I'm more of a scania guy, give me an old L113/L94 any day!

6Gman · 13 Jan 2020

mlambeuk said:
The transit van conversions that appeared in the mid 80s during de-regulation.

But still not as bad as the Freight Rover Sherpas !

TheGrandWazoo · 13 Jan 2020

6Gman said:
But still not as bad as the Freight Rover Sherpas !

Indeed - some firms were offloading Sherpas after a couple of years. I think RoadCar bought some ex Ribble ones and then fitted them with Transit gearboxes and engines (or did I dream that)

I'd have suffered some of the Northumbria ones in my youth but generally avoided such tat. The Berwick bus war had NMS Sherpas vs Lowland Dodge S56s - a real battle of the crud!!

carlberry · 13 Jan 2020

TheGrandWazoo said:
Indeed - some firms were offloading Sherpas after a couple of years. I think RoadCar bought some ex Ribble ones and then fitted them with Transit gearboxes and engines (or did I dream that)

National Welsh did that with some of their Sherpas, the reliability of which wasn't helping the company at the time.

Jordan Adam · 13 Jan 2020

arbeia said:
44 years on buses and without a shadow of doubt, Leyland Nationals. They just didn't like stopping and were lethal in wet/icy conditions.

The National wasn't without it's faults, but you cannot deny that it was a very revolutionary product for it's time and the basis for most single deck buses since.

ChilternTurbo said:
I never like the Plaxton President. I grew up in North London and the staple double decker back then was the Metrobus which I loved and thought they sounded great, especially when driven hard! Metroline were my local bus company and took to the Plaxton President on both Volvo and Dennis chassis in a big way but I always thought they seemed quite under powered and made a horrible racket like a faulty hoover. I wasn't sad to read that the last of these have just been withdrawn from London service. Good riddance.

I always found the President quite a boring/bland looking design, not to mention they leaked and rattled badly too!

JumpinTrainz said:
I also hated the T plate tridents which came to Glasgow from London which were already knackered and the seats smelled so bad. There also wasn’t a lot of seating upstairs because of the middle stair case so they were crammed on busy routes.

The W-VLNs were by far the worst imo, you could worm (dance) up a hill faster than some of them!

richw said:
The 2007 Geminis we have here feel a good quality product, and well built, are nice to drive albeit a little sluggish in B7 form.

We've got 2008 B9TL/Geminis here and i've always regarded them as quality buses, even now most have barely any rattles despite being battered about on the same route since new.

Eyersey468 · 13 Jan 2020

Presidents do leak but so did Northern Counties bodied Olympians, must be how they were built at the Wigan factory.

Jordan Adam · 13 Jan 2020

Eyersey468 said:
Presidents do leak but so did Northern Counties bodied Olympians, must be how they were built at the Wigan factory.

The issue with NC bodied Olympians seemed to more be rain water getting in through gaps in the window rubbers causing damp throughout the bus. I'm sure if they were sealed correctly it would help sort the issue.

scosutsut · 13 Jan 2020

I've never liked Plaxton bus products. Yes they sold well laterly, but I've always disliked Pointers and absolutely hated Presidents.

Bletchleyite · 13 Jan 2020

Jordan Adam said:
The issue with NC bodied Olympians seemed to more be rain water getting in through gaps in the window rubbers causing damp throughout the bus. I'm sure if they were sealed correctly it would help sort the issue.

The damp issue is solved, even with leaks, if the bus is properly ventilated using a forced air system. However, most UK bus companies are largely too cheap to provide such a thing even on premium services.

(Along similar lines lots of people whine about damp in their home and fungal growth in the bathroom, then they never open any windows which stops it dispersing)

Jordan Adam · 13 Jan 2020

Bletchleyite said:
The damp issue is solved, even with leaks, if the bus is properly ventilated using a forced air system. However, most UK bus companies are largely too cheap to provide such a thing even on premium services.

If our coaches up here are anything to go by then forced air ventilation doesn't really stop damp. A/C would though.

MotCO · 13 Jan 2020

carlberry said:
National Welsh did that with some of their Sherpas, the reliability of which wasn't helping the company at the time.

I thought I read somewhere that Sherpas were originaly built with Transit engines... or was it another model?

Mikey C · 13 Jan 2020

MotCO said:
I thought I read somewhere that Sherpas were originaly built with Transit engines... or was it another model?

The later version (LDV 400/Convoy) had a Ford engine

Smithy6750 · 14 Jan 2020

Any 333 trident in Glasgow especially 33365 which the heating never worked

E400MMC terrible to drive, especially on rural routes. PSV glazing must love the 19plates they have a tendency to flex and crack the windscreen.

Also constantly having indicator stalks snapping, sensitive door edge alarm randomly going off, adblue 25% engine derate for no reason. Endless issues with them, worst issue I’ve had is the power steering failing halfway around a corner, 5 minute isolate sorts it...

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