Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

Qwerty133 · 1 Jan 2020

Skymonster said:
Must admit I’m disappointed the LNER sets are not already on the move to EMR. Someone will probably come along sooner or later to say the transfer has hit a snag because the catering staff need to be trained to operate the coffee machines or something similar...

I've heard its actually that the cleaners need to be trained on how to refill the toilet roll holders...

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PaintYourWagon · 2 Jan 2020

The derogation letters state the specific carriages and sets which are given the exemptions for each carrier. For EMT, HST is divided into Angel and Porterbrook groups. The details are:

EC51 41120 41150 40748 42091 42146 42150 42154 44094
EC52 41039 41040 40735 42189 42057 42058 42059 44019
EC53 41090 41044 40737 42127 42063 42064 42065 44045
EC57 41151 41152 40740 42128 42182 42186 42190 44080
EC58 41097 41098 40750 42238 42191 42192 42193 44061
EC59 41099 41100 40711 42239 42240 42198 42199 44063
Spares 41066 40705 42116 42354 44077

EC61 41115 41165 40702 42159 42160 42109 42110 44057
EC62 41185 41095 40701 42326 42330 42237 42307 44075
EC63 41159 41083 40708 42286 42228 42130 42322 44050
Spare 41190

Skymonster · 2 Jan 2020

Qwerty133 said:
I've heard its actually that the cleaners need to be trained on how to refill the toilet roll holders...

Dammit I knew it would be something like that!

Skymonster · 2 Jan 2020

Seriously I now gather the LNER sets need to have PIS displays installed in the coaches (dynamic visual information display). Interestingly the derogation / dispensation letters for the former LNER HSTs do not include an exemption for lack of PIS (while those for other fleets such as the 153s and the existing HSTs do).

43096 · 2 Jan 2020

Skymonster said:
Seriously I now gather the LNER sets need to have PIS displays installed in the coaches (dynamic visual information display). Interestingly the derogation / dispensation letters for the former LNER HSTs do not include an exemption for lack of PIS (while those for other fleets such as the 153s and the existing HSTs do).

PIS fitting has been ongoing for a while - they were being done at Craigentinny whilst still in service with LNER.

Skymonster · 2 Jan 2020

43096 said:
PIS fitting has been ongoing for a while - they were being done at Craigentinny whilst still in service with LNER.

Ok despite what EMR staff said the delay must be down to training on the different coffee machines or toilet roll dispensers then! :rolleyes:

IamTrainsYT · 2 Jan 2020

Skymonster said:
Ok despite what EMR staff said the delay must be down to training on the different coffee machines or toilet roll dispensers then!

is it a bit like crosscountrys "safety reasons" excuse :lol:

_toommm_ · 3 Jan 2020

IamTrainsYT said:
is it a bit like crosscountrys "safety reasons" excuse

Is that in reference to their refusal to give out unit numbers

BR 45111 · 5 Jan 2020

There was a quite a few people taking pictures at Leicester and Nottingham yesterday, sensing the end is near .

greatvoyager · 5 Jan 2020

BR 45111 said:
There was a quite a few people taking pictures at Leicester and Nottingham yesterday, sensing the end is near .

It's sad, but not as much as usual as their replacement is with exactly the same trains.

greatvoyager · 5 Jan 2020

PaintYourWagon said:
The derogation letters state the specific carriages and sets which are given the exemptions for each carrier. For EMT, HST is divided into Angel and Porterbrook groups. The details are:

EC51 41120 41150 40748 42091 42146 42150 42154 44094
EC52 41039 41040 40735 42189 42057 42058 42059 44019
EC53 41090 41044 40737 42127 42063 42064 42065 44045
EC57 41151 41152 40740 42128 42182 42186 42190 44080
EC58 41097 41098 40750 42238 42191 42192 42193 44061
EC59 41099 41100 40711 42239 42240 42198 42199 44063
Spares 41066 40705 42116 42354 44077

EC61 41115 41165 40702 42159 42160 42109 42110 44057
EC62 41185 41095 40701 42326 42330 42237 42307 44075
EC63 41159 41083 40708 42286 42228 42130 42322 44050
Spare 41190

Thanks for confirming.

50039 · 5 Jan 2020

If the derogation is about passenger access etc, what’s the reason to change the power cars as well? Surely the EMR ones have had an easier life than the LNER ones which have been used at full speed for years on end? Or is the slower nature of the MML harder on the power cars?

43096 · 5 Jan 2020

50039 said:
If the derogation is about passenger access etc, what’s the reason to change the power cars as well? Surely the EMR ones have had an easier life than the LNER ones which have been used at full speed for years on end? Or is the slower nature of the MML harder on the power cars?

The East Coast fleet has been modified with a new driver-guard/crew comms system and has also been fitted with different multi-working jumper cables, which are not compatible with the existing EMR fleet. It is therefore easier to transfer the power cars as well. There are some (but not many) converter cables that solve the jumper cable issue (which is how Midland power cars were hired to East Coast), but AIUI train dispatch has to be done on "flags and whistles"/RA rather than the buzzer as the replacement comms system is incompatible with the old system.

50039 · 6 Jan 2020

43096 said:
The East Coast fleet has been modified with a new driver-guard/crew comms system and has also been fitted with different multi-working jumper cables, which are not compatible with the existing EMR fleet. It is therefore easier to transfer the power cars as well. There are some (but not many) converter cables that solve the jumper cable issue (which is how Midland power cars were hired to East Coast), but AIUI train dispatch has to be done on "flags and whistles"/RA rather than the buzzer as the replacement comms system is incompatible with the old system.

Thanks for explaining - much appreciated

yorksrob · 6 Jan 2020

greatvoyager said:
It's sad, but not as much as usual as their replacement is with exactly the same trains.

It will be a very different travelling experience for passengers. Personally, for first class passengers at least I think it will be a much less pleasent one.

greatvoyager · 6 Jan 2020

43096 said:
The East Coast fleet has been modified with a new driver-guard/crew comms system and has also been fitted with different multi-working jumper cables, which are not compatible with the existing EMR fleet. It is therefore easier to transfer the power cars as well. There are some (but not many) converter cables that solve the jumper cable issue (which is how Midland power cars were hired to East Coast), but AIUI train dispatch has to be done on "flags and whistles"/RA rather than the buzzer as the replacement comms system is incompatible with the old system.

yorksrob said:
It will be a very different travelling experience for passengers. Personally, for first class passengers at least I think it will be a much less pleasent one.

Will crews need to be trained on the LNER comms system before they can enter service?

WesternLancer · 6 Jan 2020

yorksrob said:
It will be a very different travelling experience for passengers. Personally, for first class passengers at least I think it will be a much less pleasent one.

Tend to agree ref 1st Class. In standard I rather suspect that many passengers will think these are the 'new trains' they were promised at franchise award - and will wonder what is going on when the bi-modes start to come on stream in due course! With sockets at seat in standard I suspect for many people that will be good enough a change!

cjmillsnun · 6 Jan 2020

WesternLancer said:
Tend to agree ref 1st Class. In standard I rather suspect that many passengers will think these are the 'new trains' they were promised at franchise award - and will wonder what is going on when the bi-modes start to come on stream in due course! With sockets at seat in standard I suspect for many people that will be good enough a change!

I think they will notice that they still have to open a droplight and turn a handle to open the doors so will realise that they are cascaded stock.

yorksrob · 6 Jan 2020

greatvoyager said:
Will crews need to be trained on the LNER comms system before they can enter service?

I'm not sure.

WesternLancer said:
Tend to agree ref 1st Class. In standard I rather suspect that many passengers will think these are the 'new trains' they were promised at franchise award - and will wonder what is going on when the bi-modes start to come on stream in due course! With sockets at seat in standard I suspect for many people that will be good enough a change!

Yes, lack of sockets in standard was definitely an oversight at the last refurb.

55002 · 8 Jan 2020

43239 and 43208 moved from Ely to Eastleigh today for some reason..

CC 72100 · 8 Jan 2020

greatvoyager said:
Will crews need to be trained on the LNER comms system before they can enter service?

I don't believe so, my reading of @43096 's post was that it was the 'back end' of the system that was different between the two fleets, but that the basic principle and end result of 'press buzzer, hear a beep in cab / at CDL panel / in TGS' was otherwise the same.

greatvoyager · 8 Jan 2020

CC 72100 said:
I don't believe so, my reading of @43096 's post was that it was the 'back end' of the system that was different between the two fleets, but that the basic principle and end result of 'press buzzer, hear a beep in cab / at CDL panel / in TGS' was otherwise the same.

Ah okay thank you for explaining.

Murray J · 8 Jan 2020

55002 said:
43239 and 43208 moved from Ely to Eastleigh today for some reason..

I saw photos of them going through basingstoke, and the photos claim that the 2 powercars are going to eastleigh for storage.

Ciderking · 8 Jan 2020

Seen arriving at Eastleigh today
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sparrowhawk7/49352258446/in/dateposted-public/

50039 · 8 Jan 2020

Murray J said:
I saw photos of them going through basingstoke, and the photos claim that the 2 powercars are going to eastleigh for storage.

Richard Clinnick has just said the same on his Twitter feed ‘warm storage’ - sorry, don’t know how to paste a link

43 302 · 8 Jan 2020

55002 said:
43239 and 43208 moved from Ely to Eastleigh today for some reason..

Aren't these the locomotives for LSL?

Ciderking · 8 Jan 2020

Murray J said:
I saw photos of them going through basingstoke, and the photos claim that the 2 powercars are going to eastleigh for storage.

50039 said:
Richard Clinnick has just said the same on his Twitter feed ‘warm storage’ - sorry, don’t know how to paste a link

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1214999192399167491

fgwrich · 8 Jan 2020

43 302 said:
Aren't these the locomotives for LSL?

No-one but LSL will know that. Unless the plan has changed, LSL were said to be looking at a Porterbrook rake so that would count these two as as they are from the Angel Trains stable.

The other issue is that Ely is now full with the arrival of the LNER Sets, Arlington have found some space within Eastleigh works and will be storing some stock in there. No doubt further space will be freed up at both locations once it's decided what will happen to the unwanted 6 442s.

BR 45111 · 9 Jan 2020

55002 said:
43239 and 43208 moved from Ely to Eastleigh today for some reason..

According to WNXX there for use by Cross country .

D365 · 9 Jan 2020

BR 45111 said:
According to WNXX there for use by Cross country .

Interesting, will this come with an additional Mk3 rake, or are the power cars replacing some of the existing XC 43s?

Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

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