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Caledonian Sleeper

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BRX

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Looks like an ex CS mk2 seated car has made its way into one of Network Rail's test trains - or am I jumping to conclusions?

 

Far north 37

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Looks like an ex CS mk2 seated car has made its way into one of Network Rail's test trains - or am I jumping to conclusions?

9806 now working on national rail test trains still in sleeper livery.
 

BRX

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Unlike the other vehicles, the toilets have retention tanks.
I didn't realise the CS mk2s had been fitted with retention tanks. I guess this is one reason they are of interest to other operators?
 

PaxVobiscum

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When arriving at Queen Street Low Level yesterday, I happened to see the Duty Manager showing a representative of Caledonian Sleeper the short extra section at the west end of P8 that will be reopening when the refurbishment is complete. Not all that much of a change, but it looks like platforms 8 & 9 will be about 1 coach length longer than they are at present, going almost up to the ramp. Hard to see in the dark with temporary lighting shining into the lens but here’s the section in question (P8 seen from the present end of P9).

EDIT: This bit is under the new station management building (under construction) which spans the west end of the Low Level station.

5D8C306E-C42A-46C1-81E2-B535597A255C.jpeg
 
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InOban

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Is that where there was an opening so that the fumes from the steam engines could escape?
 

MrEd

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I didn't realise the CS mk2s had been fitted with retention tanks. I guess this is one reason they are of interest to other operators?

I believe the Mk2e BUOs (seated coaches) have had retention tanks ever since they were converted from Mk2e TSOs in around 2000-2001. I think the Mk3 sleepers had retention tanks since BR days; I don’t think that the Mk2 lounge cars were ever fitted with them (but then the lounge car WCs were not technically for public use, and I think were later removed from some cars). I don’t think that the BUOs as they are would be of much use to passenger TOCs in the light of their condition (they’re in no way PRM compliant, and if their reliability in their last days working for CS was anything to go by, their electrics must be gubbed), but they’d probably be of some use to NR for test trains (who still use Mk2s), or perhaps even to charter operators? I think they’d need a huge amount of work done to them if they were to be used by a passenger TOC in regular passenger service.
 

TimboM

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Network Rail are leasing 5x BUOs from Eastern Rail Services - 9801 / 9803 / 9806 / 9808 / 9810

These are to provide CET facilities for the test trains (so NR can comply with their own rules!) and also additional brake force in the rakes.
 

theironroad

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The ride is appalling if you’re in a berth over the wheels (it honestly feels more like riding in a knackered Mk1 than a brand new modern carriage) but is decent (I find, anyway) if you’re in a berth in the middle of the carriage. I’m booked in coach F berth 5 going to Spean Bridge on Wednesday 22nd, I’m just crossing my fingers that I don’t get moved to a berth over the bogie (this happened to me back in November and the ride quality was atrocious).

Can anyone say what cabins are above the bogies?

I was on mk5 highlander last in room 7 and last week on a lowlander in room 7 too.

Last week I started in lower berth and in middle of night moved to upper to see if it would improve , but didn't help a great deal and overall it was a has night's sleep from rattling etc (though will say that the detaching at Carstairs I must have stayed asleep for and the attaching and detaching at Carstairs or Edinburgh definitely seems better). In the highlander last year I managed to get some reasonable, if not perfect sleep.

I can only book classic and from what I can see , room 7 is the nearest to the middle I can get..

Any ideas?
 

TimboM

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Can anyone say what cabins are above the bogies?

I was on mk5 highlander last in room 7 and last week on a lowlander in room 7 too.

Last week I started in lower berth and in middle of night moved to upper to see if it would improve , but didn't help a great deal and overall it was a has night's sleep from rattling etc (though will say that the detaching at Carstairs I must have stayed asleep for and the attaching and detaching at Carstairs or Edinburgh definitely seems better). In the highlander last year I managed to get some reasonable, if not perfect sleep.

I can only book classic and from what I can see , room 7 is the nearest to the middle I can get..

Any ideas?
Assuming you're in one of the standard Sleeper coaches (and not the PRM coach) there's 10 berths. 1-6 are Club rooms with en suite, 7-10 are Classic (no en-suite). The most central room is probably 5, with 4 and 6 also well away from the bogies. The furthest Classic Room away from the bogies is Room 7 as you suspect.

On the Sleeper.Scot website, there is a berth selector when you book tickets which enables you - subject to availability - to see a diagrammatic representation of each coach and select a different (available) berth, e.g. if there's one that's more central.
 

theironroad

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Assuming you're in one of the standard Sleeper coaches (and not the PRM coach) there's 10 berths. 1-6 are Club rooms with en suite, 7-10 are Classic (no en-suite). The most central room is probably 5, with 4 and 6 also well away from the bogies. The furthest Classic Room away from the bogies is Room 7 as you suspect.

On the Sleeper.Scot website, there is a berth selector when you book tickets which enables you - subject to availability - to see a diagrammatic representation of each coach and select a different (available) berth, e.g. if there's one that's more central.

Yeah standard classic, I think room 7 is the best I'll get. I'll have to see how it goes as I really didn't sleep well.
 

35B

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Assuming you're in one of the standard Sleeper coaches (and not the PRM coach) there's 10 berths. 1-6 are Club rooms with en suite, 7-10 are Classic (no en-suite). The most central room is probably 5, with 4 and 6 also well away from the bogies. The furthest Classic Room away from the bogies is Room 7 as you suspect.

On the Sleeper.Scot website, there is a berth selector when you book tickets which enables you - subject to availability - to see a diagrammatic representation of each coach and select a different (available) berth, e.g. if there's one that's more central.
Where in the booking process do you get the berth selector?
 

TimboM

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Where in the booking process do you get the berth selector?
Chose destination/arrival stations, select passengers/railcards, choose room type, then after that.

upload_2020-1-10_22-28-41.png

upload_2020-1-10_22-29-16.png

So in this example I could stay in the ideal central berth, or move right over bogies for the Pacer Experience. Can also select the other coaches and see what's available in those too.
 

47271

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The entire coach is affected by the on and off rattling, don't get your hopes up by avoiding the bogies. Vertical juddering is slightly less amidships, but the rattle goes through the entire vehicle.
 

swapmeetpete

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The entire coach is affected by the on and off rattling, don't get your hopes up by avoiding the bogies. Vertical juddering is slightly less amidships, but the rattle goes through the entire vehicle.
Hopefully they'll have to fix the damping before they shake themselves to bits.
 

35B

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The entire coach is affected by the on and off rattling, don't get your hopes up by avoiding the bogies. Vertical juddering is slightly less amidships, but the rattle goes through the entire vehicle.
On my journeys, it did not bother me nearly as much as on the Mk3s. Horses for courses.
 

Far north 37

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Looks like 1S25 was caped at perth this morning all hughland mainline services cancelled.
 

Essexman

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I try to book Berth 5 which is definitely better than the end ones. There are still rattles but probably not as many as the Mark 3s, however now we have the water sloshing. The shunting and pulling away is however far smoother and I can sleep through Edinburgh on the Highlander now, which used to be impossible.
 

MrEd

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I try to book Berth 5 which is definitely better than the end ones. There are still rattles but probably not as many as the Mark 3s, however now we have the water sloshing. The shunting and pulling away is however far smoother and I can sleep through Edinburgh on the Highlander now, which used to be impossible.

I agree with everything you say. The water sloshing is annoying, but you’re right about leaving stations and the shunting at Edinburgh- that’s so much more bearable with the Mk5s than on the old stock. I always try to get room 5 too if travelling first, and 7 if standard.
 

47271

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Having caught up with a two Highlander regulars yesterday, and my own limited experience of the new trains, I think that the two posts above have got it pretty much right. We have no technical knowledge by the way, we're just people who spend a lot of time travelling by rail and know a rough ride when we feel one.

Anything to do with couplings and connections, in other words horizontally generated movement and noise, has been improved out of recognition on the mk5s. So shunting, braking and acceleration has none of the old bangs and jiggles.

As for the knocking or rattling. Going by earlier posts on this and other threads, this is a problem with the way that the secondary air suspension fails to cope with track that's in anything other than perfect condition. The vertical motion created is causing an up and down knocking, but this is believed to be more common north of Edinburgh and large distances can be covered on the WCML at full speed with no disturbance at all. Fair enough, but a mk3 in good nick soaked up pretty much everything, so it isn't good enough.

I can't get anyone to be too upset about sloshing!
 

43096

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I believe the Mk2e BUOs (seated coaches) have had retention tanks ever since they were converted from Mk2e TSOs in around 2000-2001. I think the Mk3 sleepers had retention tanks since BR days; I don’t think that the Mk2 lounge cars were ever fitted with them (but then the lounge car WCs were not technically for public use, and I think were later removed from some cars). I don’t think that the BUOs as they are would be of much use to passenger TOCs in the light of their condition (they’re in no way PRM compliant, and if their reliability in their last days working for CS was anything to go by, their electrics must be gubbed), but they’d probably be of some use to NR for test trains (who still use Mk2s), or perhaps even to charter operators? I think they’d need a huge amount of work done to them if they were to be used by a passenger TOC in regular passenger service.
The Mark 3 sleepers had retention tanks from new. Even BR recognised the issue of having stock with passengers on board in stations for lengthy periods (eg train arrives 0530, passengers can remain on board until 0730).
 

MrEd

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The Mark 3 sleepers had retention tanks from new. Even BR recognised the issue of having stock with passengers on board in stations for lengthy periods (eg train arrives 0530, passengers can remain on board until 0730).

That I didn’t know- makes a lot of sense in many ways.

Another point- did BR usually honour the fact that passengers were allowed to remain on board until well after arrival, or were they in practice keen to turf everyone off as soon as possible (as sometimes seems to be the case with CS’ Up Lowlander when it arrives early at Euston? The timetables seem to suggest that you’re allowed to stay in the berth until 08:00 at Euston on the up Highlander, but most crews that I’ve experienced seem to want you to vacate on arrival. The only time I ever used the northbound Lowlander into Glasgow, around a year ago, we were told to vacate on arrival just after 07:20, even though the timetable suggests that you can stay in your berth until about 07:45. Should the ’vacate cabins by’ times actually be taken with a pinch of salt? Obviously there’s no problem with the northbound Inverness or Fort William trains being ’vacate immediately on arrival’, as these arrive at very sociable times and the crews on these routes have had a long enough shift as it is!
 
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Beebman

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Article from the Edinburgh Evening News about ‘emergency exit windows’ being locked shut:
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....ows-are-locked-caledonian-sleeper-1362590?amp
A rail source said: “There is a coach in service at the moment which has all the emergency windows locked shut so you can’t use them. Though not the primary escape route, they are still an escape route in an emergency.

“It’s a bit alarming to know that should there be an emergency, escape would’ve been delayed because of locked exits, and, depending on the emergency, could pose a real risk.”
 
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